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BucBalla85

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#75 : March 18, 2012, 01:59:29 PM

Also, I'd like to make one more point about just how much input Schiano has in player acquisitions.  OL and WR were not the Bucs 2 biggest needs in the offseason, LB and CB were.  The fact that not 1 LB was signed and a mediocre CB was overpaid should tell you that Schiano had little input and Dominik wanted to make big name offensive splashes.  A power run game is best supplemented with a strong defense.  What in the last 3 years tells you that we are even remotely close to that?  The defense is in much worse shape than the offense.  If the Bucs were going to spend heavily on 2 players and slightly on 1... I'd rather them have sign Tulloch (or Lofton), Finnegan (or Carr), and Eddie Royal (or Brandon Lloyd), than Jackson, Nicks, and Wright.  If Dominik was so correct on his player evaluations on offense, just supplementing it should work because Freeman is supposed to be a great QB.

i gotta disagree completely with this.   our FA signings should tell us that schiano had little input?  huh?  c'mon. 

schiano has said that he wasnt a power run game that takes deep shots...and you think he had no input because we signed the best OL and best deep threat available?

If you have a power run game and no defense to give you the opportunity to run it, it's kind of pointless to have one.  Also, IF Freeman is the "MAN" and Sullivan is the right guy, then there should have been no reason why signing a nice deep threat receiver like Lloyd, or expanding Benn's abilities would be out of the question.  Yes, an offensive line upgrade is needed, but getting a guy like Kalil, Reiff, or Martin was totally impossible in the draft?  Also, guys like Chris Myers, Vernon Carey, Scott Wells, and Evan Mathis would have easily upgraded the C, G, or RT positions on our line with quality players.  A good to great QB makes good lineman great.  If they don't think Freeman is a "Franchise QB", then getting guys like Jackson and Nicks are the band-aid... if they do think he is, then they went the wrong route in free agency.  Time will tell on that.

That makes no sense. You want to have a good run game if your defense sucks. Then you can keep your defense on the sideline. Certainly not pointless. Plus what's wrong with getting Freeman weapons? After losing 10 in a row you need some help. Come on is it not obvious to you that Freeman needs help? It should be no mystery that freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself. So you gotta put more around him. Sorry he's not a Brady or Brees. I think most have accepted he's not that by now.

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#76 : March 18, 2012, 03:27:24 PM

Also, I'd like to make one more point about just how much input Schiano has in player acquisitions.  OL and WR were not the Bucs 2 biggest needs in the offseason, LB and CB were.  The fact that not 1 LB was signed and a mediocre CB was overpaid should tell you that Schiano had little input and Dominik wanted to make big name offensive splashes.  A power run game is best supplemented with a strong defense.  What in the last 3 years tells you that we are even remotely close to that?  The defense is in much worse shape than the offense.  If the Bucs were going to spend heavily on 2 players and slightly on 1... I'd rather them have sign Tulloch (or Lofton), Finnegan (or Carr), and Eddie Royal (or Brandon Lloyd), than Jackson, Nicks, and Wright.  If Dominik was so correct on his player evaluations on offense, just supplementing it should work because Freeman is supposed to be a great QB.

i gotta disagree completely with this.   our FA signings should tell us that schiano had little input?  huh?  c'mon. 

schiano has said that he wasnt a power run game that takes deep shots...and you think he had no input because we signed the best OL and best deep threat available?

If you have a power run game and no defense to give you the opportunity to run it, it's kind of pointless to have one.  Also, IF Freeman is the "MAN" and Sullivan is the right guy, then there should have been no reason why signing a nice deep threat receiver like Lloyd, or expanding Benn's abilities would be out of the question.  Yes, an offensive line upgrade is needed, but getting a guy like Kalil, Reiff, or Martin was totally impossible in the draft?  Also, guys like Chris Myers, Vernon Carey, Scott Wells, and Evan Mathis would have easily upgraded the C, G, or RT positions on our line with quality players.  A good to great QB makes good lineman great.  If they don't think Freeman is a "Franchise QB", then getting guys like Jackson and Nicks are the band-aid... if they do think he is, then they went the wrong route in free agency.  Time will tell on that.

That makes no sense. You want to have a good run game if your defense sucks. Then you can keep your defense on the sideline. Certainly not pointless. Plus what's wrong with getting Freeman weapons? After losing 10 in a row you need some help. Come on is it not obvious to you that Freeman needs help? It should be no mystery that freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself. So you gotta put more around him. Sorry he's not a Brady or Brees. I think most have accepted he's not that by now.

1. If Freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself, then he needs to be replaced... NOW.  Outside of Flacco, I don't think I've seen a QB in the playoffs the last 4 years who doesn't fit that mold.
2. If the defense isn't stopping anyone, like last year, you're going to be alienating the run game... again, much like last year.
3. Oh, I know the offense needs help... but I think it's more at the QB position than the other 10.
4. Getting weapons on offense isn't a bad thing, but like I've said, Brandon Lloyd and Tolbert would have been more helpful to the team if they'd signed Tulloch and Finnegan (or Carr), than what they did in signing Jackson, Nicks, and Wright.

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#77 : March 18, 2012, 03:37:26 PM

That makes no sense. You want to have a good run game if your defense sucks. Then you can keep your defense on the sideline. Certainly not pointless. Plus what's wrong with getting Freeman weapons? After losing 10 in a row you need some help. Come on is it not obvious to you that Freeman needs help? It should be no mystery that freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself. So you gotta put more around him. Sorry he's not a Brady or Brees. I think most have accepted he's not that by now.

You can't keep your defense on the sidelines unless you make first downs. The running game doesn't really do that. You can't keep running unless your defense keeps you in game or your passing game puts you ahead.

Freeman is a guy like Manning the Lesser who needs help. For all the breathless hype, Eli got to the SB beating 2 terrible pass defenses and did not much vs the worst pass defence ever in a SB. He passes are high, behind and not Rodgers-esque in placement. Cruz, Hicks in particular and even Manningham help him by being very good. Freeman needs that same level of help.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BucBalla85

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#78 : March 18, 2012, 03:47:02 PM

Also, I'd like to make one more point about just how much input Schiano has in player acquisitions.  OL and WR were not the Bucs 2 biggest needs in the offseason, LB and CB were.  The fact that not 1 LB was signed and a mediocre CB was overpaid should tell you that Schiano had little input and Dominik wanted to make big name offensive splashes.  A power run game is best supplemented with a strong defense.  What in the last 3 years tells you that we are even remotely close to that?  The defense is in much worse shape than the offense.  If the Bucs were going to spend heavily on 2 players and slightly on 1... I'd rather them have sign Tulloch (or Lofton), Finnegan (or Carr), and Eddie Royal (or Brandon Lloyd), than Jackson, Nicks, and Wright.  If Dominik was so correct on his player evaluations on offense, just supplementing it should work because Freeman is supposed to be a great QB.

i gotta disagree completely with this.   our FA signings should tell us that schiano had little input?  huh?  c'mon. 

schiano has said that he wasnt a power run game that takes deep shots...and you think he had no input because we signed the best OL and best deep threat available?

If you have a power run game and no defense to give you the opportunity to run it, it's kind of pointless to have one.  Also, IF Freeman is the "MAN" and Sullivan is the right guy, then there should have been no reason why signing a nice deep threat receiver like Lloyd, or expanding Benn's abilities would be out of the question.  Yes, an offensive line upgrade is needed, but getting a guy like Kalil, Reiff, or Martin was totally impossible in the draft?  Also, guys like Chris Myers, Vernon Carey, Scott Wells, and Evan Mathis would have easily upgraded the C, G, or RT positions on our line with quality players.  A good to great QB makes good lineman great.  If they don't think Freeman is a "Franchise QB", then getting guys like Jackson and Nicks are the band-aid... if they do think he is, then they went the wrong route in free agency.  Time will tell on that.

That makes no sense. You want to have a good run game if your defense sucks. Then you can keep your defense on the sideline. Certainly not pointless. Plus what's wrong with getting Freeman weapons? After losing 10 in a row you need some help. Come on is it not obvious to you that Freeman needs help? It should be no mystery that freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself. So you gotta put more around him. Sorry he's not a Brady or Brees. I think most have accepted he's not that by now.

1. If Freeman isn't a guy who is going to win games by himself, then he needs to be replaced... NOW.  Outside of Flacco, I don't think I've seen a QB in the playoffs the last 4 years who doesn't fit that mold.
2. If the defense isn't stopping anyone, like last year, you're going to be alienating the run game... again, much like last year.
3. Oh, I know the offense needs help... but I think it's more at the QB position than the other 10.
4. Getting weapons on offense isn't a bad thing, but like I've said, Brandon Lloyd and Tolbert would have been more helpful to the team if they'd signed Tulloch and Finnegan (or Carr), than what they did in signing Jackson, Nicks, and Wright.

1. Freeman won't be replaced now. Maybe next year if he proves to be as bad as you say he is.
2. When you run the ball you keep your awful defense on the sideline. Also if we abandon the run, we have guys now who can make plays in the pass game. VJack helps make that happen.
3. That's debatable but we shall find out this year.
4. You make a point. But I'm fine with what they did honestly because you guaranteed your speed threat and got your protection. Rather than taking gambles on mid tier guys. However you make a valid point and would have been fine with your plan as well. I'm just shocked they did anything honestly.

GameTime

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#79 : March 18, 2012, 03:49:37 PM

If you have a power run game and no defense to give you the opportunity to run it, it's kind of pointless to have one.  Also, IF Freeman is the "MAN" and Sullivan is the right guy, then there should have been no reason why signing a nice deep threat receiver like Lloyd, or expanding Benn's abilities would be out of the question.  Yes, an offensive line upgrade is needed, but getting a guy like Kalil, Reiff, or Martin was totally impossible in the draft?  Also, guys like Chris Myers, Vernon Carey, Scott Wells, and Evan Mathis would have easily upgraded the C, G, or RT positions on our line with quality players.  A good to great QB makes good lineman great.  If they don't think Freeman is a "Franchise QB", then getting guys like Jackson and Nicks are the band-aid... if they do think he is, then they went the wrong route in free agency.  Time will tell on that.

so you think it would have been better to add average players rather than great ones?  who is to say we dont have a defense?

there's not one way to address a team.  from the posts in this thread it leads me to believe that you believe its your way or the highway.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#80 : March 18, 2012, 07:55:39 PM

If you have a power run game and no defense to give you the opportunity to run it, it's kind of pointless to have one.  Also, IF Freeman is the "MAN" and Sullivan is the right guy, then there should have been no reason why signing a nice deep threat receiver like Lloyd, or expanding Benn's abilities would be out of the question.  Yes, an offensive line upgrade is needed, but getting a guy like Kalil, Reiff, or Martin was totally impossible in the draft?  Also, guys like Chris Myers, Vernon Carey, Scott Wells, and Evan Mathis would have easily upgraded the C, G, or RT positions on our line with quality players.  A good to great QB makes good lineman great.  If they don't think Freeman is a "Franchise QB", then getting guys like Jackson and Nicks are the band-aid... if they do think he is, then they went the wrong route in free agency.  Time will tell on that.

so you think it would have been better to add average players rather than great ones?  who is to say we dont have a defense?

there's not one way to address a team.  from the posts in this thread it leads me to believe that you believe its your way or the highway.

If they have confidence that Freeman is the guy... and they have faith in the players that they drafted, ie Williams, Benn, and Stocker... then yes, by adding a guy like Lloyd who has put up solid numbers when his QB's weren't sucking and upgrading at Center and RT would be all that's required.  The FACT that McCoy has been in the league 2 years and been hurt both times... the FACT that we have terrible LB's... the FACT that our CB situation is terrible, tells me... and should tell everyone else that our defense is in much worse shape than our offense.

You're absolutely correct, there is definitely more than one way to address team needs.  Though, no, it's not my way or the highway, I just think that Dominik is very terrible at his job and I think anyone here on this board could do it better.  Here's the point I've tried to make over and over again.  Let's assume that Dominik and Schiano feel that Freeman is in fact the QB of the future and a true "Franchise QB"... meaning, worst case... equal to Eli, Ben, Schaub, and Rivers... not elite, but the next rung or so down.  If that's the case, his abilities should be able to make good players better.  Meaning, Williams just had a hiccup, Benn will soon be the deep threat we've needed, and the OLine just needs polishing.  We see every week how Ben has made that terrible pass blocking Steelers line serviceable.  The Saints line changes almost yearly.  The Chargers have only had 2 guys on their OLine for more than 3 years.  Overpaying upper echelon players on offense should not be needed, just slight upgrades.  The defense, where there is a tremendous need and holes, is where the free agency should have been focused.

Now, if they don't have faith in Freeman, they did exactly what they should have and it just means that Freeman is soon to be replaced... maybe as early as this year... maybe Weeden in the 2nd round or Osweiler or Wilson in the 3rd.  It's possible that they're willing to chalk this season up as a potential loss and take a run at Barkley or Jones next year.  Either way... it all points to Dominik needing to be fired A.S.A.P.  Either he's screwed up the last 3 years and is trying to make up for it now... or he's just compounding the problems now.  Drafting Richardson at #5 would put the nail in the coffin for me.  I'd fire him before he'd even submit the card.

GameTime

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#81 : March 18, 2012, 10:20:51 PM

the giants drafted hakeem nicks in the first round to give eli a weapon...does that mean they dont think he is elite?
the saints just gave grubbs a huge deal...what does that say?
the steelers used a first round pick on a RB and are doing everything they can to keep wallace...does big ben not need weapons?
the texans have given schaub andre, foster, and ben tate for weapons.

our guys that you mentioned were two 4ths and a second.  an undrafted RB.  a past his prime one dimensional TE.  and you think it was wrong to give the guy a real weapon?

where i differ is that i believe the D's 2 main problems were youth and schemes that did not fit.  i dont or wont say its a mistake to replace youth.

fans hated dominik when he didnt spend money.  fans hated dominik when he spent money on our own guys, and probably the wrong ones.  and now fans hate dominik for spending money on probowlers.

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#82 : March 19, 2012, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: GameTime
the giants drafted hakeem nicks in the first round to give eli a weapon...does that mean they dont think he is elite?
Exactly my point... they drafted the future receiver... not signed him after they already drafted one.  The Bucs drafted Benn and Williams to be their guys, just like the Giants did with Nicks.  The difference is, the Giants have a QB who actualized their receivers talents and the Bucs do not... hence, they had to go sign a free agent.

Quote from: GameTime
the saints just gave grubbs a huge deal...what does that say?
It says they don't have a viable replacement on their roster.  What else would that mean?

Quote from: GameTime
the steelers used a first round pick on a RB and are doing everything they can to keep wallace...does big ben not need weapons?
See Giants comments above.

Quote from: GameTime
the texans have given schaub andre, foster, and ben tate for weapons.
Again, see above.

Quote from: GameTime
our guys that you mentioned were two 4ths and a second.  an undrafted RB.  a past his prime one dimensional TE.  and you think it was wrong to give the guy a real weapon?
What a terrible arguement.  You bring up...
The Steelers (who have a 3rd rd Wallace, 6th rd Antonio Brown, and a bunch of TE's) - sure, they spent a 1st on Mendenhall, but that's because he was "the missing piece" so-to-speak.
The Giants (who have an undrafted Victor Cruz, 4th round Brandon Jacobs, 7th rd Ahmad Bradshaw, TE by committee), yes... they took Nicks in the 1st, but that's because they were supplimenting what they had and replace what they were losing... remember the Plaxico incident?
The Texans who DIDN'T GIVE Schaub Andre Johnson... Johnson was given Matt Schaub... and Foster was undrafted and Tate was a 2nd round pick.

Where the heck are you going with all of that?  You make it seem like the Bucs gave Freeman far less than what the other guys got.  Now, if that's the point you want to make... then I'll agree because that's been my whole point on how terrible of a job Dominik is doing.  Remember, Williams, everyone knows, was said to have 1st round talent, but 6th round head, so he went in the 4th.  No one made such comments on talent regaurding Cruz or Wallace.

Quote from: GameTime
where i differ is that i believe the D's 2 main problems were youth and schemes that did not fit.  i dont or wont say its a mistake to replace youth.
You very well could be right, we can wait and reserve judgement on them, but I really don't see how the defense suffered so much more than the offense under the same poor coaching.

Quote from: GameTime
fans hated dominik when he didnt spend money.  fans hated dominik when he spent money on our own guys, and probably the wrong ones.  and now fans hate dominik for spending money on probowlers.

I don't care how much money he spends or didn't spend, I've never made any issues over that.  My whole problem with him is that his talent evaluation / draft picks is so terrible, he has no choice but to spend money on free agents.  Everyone on this board is in agreement that he's full of crap about "The Plan" and how this was the year they were going to spend.  There's no guarantee that there is a core in place.  We don't know if Freeman is a franchise QB.  We don't know the WR's are going to pan out.  We don't know if Price and McCoy are going to stay healthy.

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#83 : March 19, 2012, 12:38:48 PM

Why not...becase we can roll with what we have for now and if we want a WR...we can wait till next year and take either

Marquess Wilson
Robert Woods

who probably are as good or better than Blackmon

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