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ONEBIGDADDY

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#4200 : July 07, 2013, 09:57:21 PM

The MMA link is laughable. A witness paints an image many have seen on TV and that somehow becomes a technical description for the blows ... Which links it back to Z?  That is a stretch that would make Captain Elastic blush.
Please lets not embarrass the Fantastic Four...OBD


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#4201 : July 07, 2013, 10:07:16 PM

Zimmerman lied about the extent of the injuries he suffered at the hands of Martin. At no point do his injuries suggest that Martin was using anything near what can be construed as deadly force against Zimmerman, which might be why Zimmerman also threw in the part about Martin reaching for his gun and telling him "you're going to die tonight", which are also two questionable parts of his accounting of events. There is little doubt, eve among those witnesses purported to be helping his defense, that Zimmerman exaggerated many aspects of the conflict to make it appear that he was in more danger than he actually was. Despite what the "unbiased" one's say, this could easily be construed by the jury as disproportionate force or imperfect self-defense, which could justifiably render a lesser verdict of manslaughter.

CBW, then: "Z clearly has no injuries, I can tell by looking at the NBC video"

CBW, now: "Z lied about the extent of those injuries that I previously told you he didn't have"

CBW: " btw, I still say he called him a **CENSORED**, because he is clearly a racist"

Lmao

Rinse, repeat, and avoid. Notice the message board lawyer says nothing about the possibility of the jury seeing Zimmerman as using disproportionate force. The prosecution has provided evidence that his injuries were minor, and that at no point was he in imminent danger. They have also disproven the legitimacy of many of the claims that Zimmerman made about how many times Martin actually hit him, that Martin was bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, and suggestion that Martin was reaching for his gun.

If the jury believes that Zimmerman did lie about these things, which evidence suggests that he did, then it would be a reasonable assumption that the jury could see this as Zimmerman knowing the law, knowing that his injuries were not sufficient enough to justify the use of deadly force, and choosing to embellish or fabricate additional aspects of the conflict in order to justify the use of deadly force. Despite your "unbiased" claim that this is an unreasonable or unjustifiable conviction, it would be easily legally justifiable for the jury to come back with such a ruling.

Must admit Vin has you on this one. You have been pretty much all over the place on this issue. I might not agree with Durango on his objections but at least he has been pretty consistent with them.

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#4202 : July 07, 2013, 10:09:28 PM


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head.

That's when you needed to stop. Point proven.

ufojoe

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#4203 : July 08, 2013, 12:09:59 AM

OK, pretend your the prosecution. Let me hear your best, condensed, closing argument.

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#4204 : July 08, 2013, 12:13:47 AM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head.

Yes, in Joe's world TM was dishing out some "swift harsh justice" . . . . while laying on his back

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#4205 : July 08, 2013, 12:41:38 AM

solid analysis from a "converted" attorney:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/story?id=19598422&page=2#.UdpCOfmceSo

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#4206 : July 08, 2013, 09:01:51 AM

3-4 more days of this....


spartan

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#4207 : July 08, 2013, 09:03:11 AM

OK, pretend your the prosecution. Let me hear your best, condensed, closing argument.

I have not been listening gavel to gavel, primarily highlights, what I have read etc so take this for what it is worth The Prosecution should withdraw their case. They have little to no evidence and are hoping for a conviction based solely on emotion. The emotional response of the women jurors and the emotional levels of the whole incident.
: July 08, 2013, 09:04:44 AM spartan

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#4208 : July 08, 2013, 09:08:19 AM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head. In this scenario they also swapped clothing before the incident took place, and afterwards Zimmerman rolled around in the wet grass to make it appear as if he was laying on his back. Air tight, logical, and entertaining.

Good said that he couldn't actually tell if Martin was punching Zimmerman or not, and that the "ground and pound" characterization was possibly fed to him by the police. Martin's hands did not show the type of cuts or bruises that would be consistent of someone who "rained blows down" on someone else, and Zimmerman also had MMA training. Zimmerman was older and stronger than Martin, and trained in the same fighting style, yet the "unbiased" wish us to believe that Zimmerman was some helpless, doughish weeny and Martin was "Rampage" Jackson.


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#4209 : July 08, 2013, 09:18:55 AM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head. In this scenario they also swapped clothing before the incident took place, and afterwards Zimmerman rolled around in the wet grass to make it appear as if he was laying on his back. Air tight, logical, and entertaining.

Good said that he couldn't actually tell if Martin was punching Zimmerman or not, and that the "ground and pound" characterization was possibly fed to him by the police. Martin's hands did not show the type of cuts or bruises that would be consistent of someone who "rained blows down" on someone else, and Zimmerman also had MMA training. Zimmerman was older and stronger than Martin, and trained in the same fighting style, yet the "unbiased" wish us to believe that Zimmerman was some helpless, doughish weeny and Martin was "Rampage" Jackson.


GZ's MMA instructor said himself that Zimmerman was soft, you weren't aware of that...I know. Also, you haven't a clue if Zimmerman was stronger than Martin, age alone doesn't determine this. We know as fact that Martin didn't have so much as a scratch on him to indicate he was in a fight, we know as fact Zimmerman did. We know as fact that the back of Zimmerman's clothes were noticeably wetter than the front, and were covered in grass. The sad thing is that if Zimmerman were black and Trayvon white, you would all of a sudden be more accepting of these facts.

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#4210 : July 08, 2013, 09:27:08 AM

It may just be me, but this witness seemed very shaken up by saying that was George's voice. Think she was very upset to have to lie about that.


Escobar06

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#4211 : July 08, 2013, 09:34:01 AM

I think she was upset because it's not easy to listen to if you're a friend of the person yelling for help.

Btw, the more I hear that tape the more it sounds like Zimmerman, especially the very first yells at the beginning of the call. In fact I'd say it sounds exactly like him.

I find it funny that Bernie's dumb ass can't even figure out how to play a video or audio clip on a computer, needs assistance every time.

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#4212 : July 08, 2013, 09:50:02 AM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head. In this scenario they also swapped clothing before the incident took place, and afterwards Zimmerman rolled around in the wet grass to make it appear as if he was laying on his back. Air tight, logical, and entertaining.

Good said that he couldn't actually tell if Martin was punching Zimmerman or not, and that the "ground and pound" characterization was possibly fed to him by the police. Martin's hands did not show the type of cuts or bruises that would be consistent of someone who "rained blows down" on someone else, and Zimmerman also had MMA training. Zimmerman was older and stronger than Martin, and trained in the same fighting style, yet the "unbiased" wish us to believe that Zimmerman was some helpless, doughish weeny and Martin was "Rampage" Jackson.


Bucfucious

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#4213 : July 08, 2013, 10:14:35 AM

"Zimmerman was older and stronger than Martin, and trained in the same fighting style, yet the "unbiased" wish us to believe that Zimmerman was some helpless, doughish weeny and Martin was "Rampage" Jackson."

Now the Martinites would have us believe that the wheezing blob is secretly a highly conditioned lethal weapon. This **CENSORED** just keeps getting better.

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#4214 : July 08, 2013, 11:12:14 AM

"Zimmerman was older and stronger than Martin, and trained in the same fighting style, yet the "unbiased" wish us to believe that Zimmerman was some helpless, doughish weeny and Martin was "Rampage" Jackson."

Now the Martinites would have us believe that the wheezing blob is secretly a highly conditioned lethal weapon. This **CENSORED** just keeps getting better.

Now who is picking and choosing what pictures they want to use to characterize the parties involved in the conflict? Zimmerman was in much better shape at the time of the confrontation than he is in now. He had lost a significant amount of weight before the confrontation took place. I suppose we should believe he accomplished this by eating cheeseburgers and not working out? Martin was 5'11", 158 lbs. Zimmerman was 5'9", 185 lbs. at the time of the shooting. Wheezing blob? I don't think so.

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