Trayvon Martin controversy

[DA_OAKS]

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20100417/ARTICLE/4171047

terrible situation.. same thing happen in my home town

[ufojoe]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

Licensed to carry a firearm and a student of criminal justice, Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking, neighbors said. The self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch program is credited with cracking some crimes, and thwarting others.

[ufojoe]

As awful as this kid's murder is, it happens all of the time in this country - as Spartan pointed out.

No, it doesn't.

Find me cases where a white, neighborhood watch guy kills an unarmed black kid and mumbles a racist word for blacks when speaking to the 911 operator.

Hell, just find some cases where a neighborhood watch  person is armed and shoots at a su**CENSORED**ious person as he/she is making their daily rounds.. Happens all the time, right?

[John Galt?]

Spartan hears a P sound when it clearly sounds like C word that is a derogatory word for blacks.

Well I clearly heard a trash can being knocked over and whenever I hear a trashcan getting knocked over I think "F---ing **CENSORED**s". Is that racist or "anti-   Procyon-ist"?

 It's as if Spartan doesn't want race to be a part of this case for whatever reason.

I certainly don't want race to be part of this or anything else, but unfortunately the cop-wannabe was a bigot and that made it racial.

Make of that what you will. Please tell us what P word, that rhymes with dunes, makes sense?

pretty obvious. Clearly Zimmerman hates Va-jay-jay

As somebody else said, Zimmerman injected the race angle with his own words.

and actions!!

Zimmerman was told to stop following the kid and refused to listen. Whatever happened, he instigated it. Like others, I hope he is served some swift and harsh justice.

There are 2 parts to the Justice system. Criminal and Civil. Whether he gets proper punishment from the criminal side is debatable given the info I know, but I'd say there is more than ample evidence for a civil action. "Stand your ground" may give him a defense vs criminal charges, but in no way absolves him of culpability from a wrongful death suit.

[Biggs3535]

As awful as this kid's murder is, it happens all of the time in this country - as Spartan pointed out.

No, it doesn't.

Find me cases where a white, neighborhood watch guy kills an unarmed black kid and mumbles a racist word for blacks when speaking to the 911 operator.

Hell, just find some cases where a neighborhood watch  person is armed and shoots at a su**CENSORED**ious person as he/she is making their daily rounds.. Happens all the time, right?

Does the victim's first name also have to be Trayvon?

Geezus Joe, I was clearly talking about murder in general.  The violence in Chicago has been mentioned.  There's a good place to start.

And FTR, I think Zimmerman clearly called Martin a racial slur.  But I wouldn't classify Zimmerman as "white" either:

[VinBucFan]

Would someone living in Sanford be worried about crime?:

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/

"Out of the 11 areas of poverty located in Seminole County Florida, nine can be found in Sanford Florida. These sections of the city are plagued by crime, drugs, gangs, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, AIDS, poor health, illiteracy and many other dire situations."

[Durango 95]

Would someone living in Sanford be worried about crime?:

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/

Just look out for the Rent a Cops.

[VinBucFan]

Would someone living in Sanford be worried about crime?:

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/

Just look out for the Rent a Cops.

No doubt the stage was set for something bad to happen.  A guy who definitely felt empowered, a legitimate substantial crime problem, etc. Did one article say 400+ police calls in a year?  I like all the idelaism on this thread because we certainly want everyone striving to be the "own best selves" (hey, did I just quote Morris?), but the event being discussed is hardly surprising, certainly sad and unfortunate beyong description, but not surprising in any way.   Humans are terribly flawed despite the idealism express on this message board

[Durango 95]

Spartan hears a P sound when it clearly sounds like C word that is a derogatory word for blacks.

Well I clearly heard a trash can being knocked over and whenever I hear a trashcan getting knocked over I think "F---ing **CENSORED**s". Is that racist or "anti-   Procyon-ist"?

 It's as if Spartan doesn't want race to be a part of this case for whatever reason.

I certainly don't want race to be part of this or anything else, but unfortunately the cop-wannabe was a bigot and that made it racial.

Make of that what you will. Please tell us what P word, that rhymes with dunes, makes sense?

pretty obvious. Clearly Zimmerman hates Va-jay-jay

As somebody else said, Zimmerman injected the race angle with his own words.

and actions!!

Zimmerman was told to stop following the kid and refused to listen. Whatever happened, he instigated it. Like others, I hope he is served some swift and harsh justice.

There are 2 parts to the Justice system. Criminal and Civil. Whether he gets proper punishment from the criminal side is debatable given the info I know, but I'd say there is more than ample evidence for a civil action. "Stand your ground" may give him a defense vs criminal charges, but in no way absolves him of culpability from a wrongful death suit.

^^^^This post should be committed to a fine parchment, bound in the finest high grade Corinthian leather, then preserved in a climate controlled area of the Western Wing in the forth coming Greg Schiano Library.

[VinBucFan]

For those typing that Zim was told to stop following kid, which is true, it is also apparently true that the 911 tape includes a statement by Zimm that the kid was approaching him.  I saw that in an article by Johnathan Turley. I have not heard the tapes, but if that is accurate it would be at least one fact supporting  the "stand your ground defense." 

Also, its impossible to say that race did not play some part in this matter, but the question is what part? I do not see any evidence yet that Zim shot the guy due to race.  In other words, this was not a hate crime.  It appears that Zim made assumptions about the kid that at least, in part, related to race. Those assumptions were very unfortunate to say the least, tragic is probably a better word, but is it actually surpising? Sanford is a mostly minority town with the largest minority being African American and Sanford is also a very poor town, as noted in my prior post.  Poor people are, for obvious reasons, disproportionately involved in economic crimes like robbery, which was a substantial problem in this community (400 police calls in a year, that 1.? per day), so by simple math the African Amercian community in Sanford is more likely to be involved in the type of crime in this community.  The racism comes from linking the crimes to race as opposed to poverty, but is it actually suprising (I agree it is unfortunate and wrong) that a watchman in Sanford for a community with 400 police calls per year would make such an assumption.  It's wrong/unfortunate absolutely, but we may be giving too much credit to humans if we are actually suprised. Unfortunate, but true.  Lots of reasons for what happened. Racism may be one, but if so it is only one, of many.

[Chief Joseph]

Can't be a hate crime if the shooter's not white. Sure is a lot of pretending going on in this thread.

[Chief Joseph]

Only white heterosexual males commit hate crimes. Not surprised you didn't know that.

[Biggs3535]

Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

[Durango 95]

Zimmerman's attorney also claims that his client suffered a broken nose in the altercation does not use racial slurs and was in fact a mentor to two African American teens.

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

Actually that was what was reported on the first day of this incident. A lot is not being put in the media right now because of this frenzy that is being whipped up in his community. As I have said before the Three Agencies will put out exactly what happened and some will feel very foolish for taking sides before the truth is published...Zimmerman put himself in this sticky situation and he ultimately will lose even if he is vindicated so it will be a lose lose situation. I truly feel he should have backed off and let the cops handled it and I think the young man should have called the cops on Zimmerman for stalking. But again I wasn't there and I will wait to pass judgment...I just want to see what those who are investigating this find...OBD