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Kelly Thomas

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« #90 : March 24, 2012, 10:26:08 PM »

Zimmerman's attorney also claims that his client suffered a broken nose in the altercation does not use racial slurs and was in fact a mentor to two African American teens.

Was his nose broken?  Were any of those facts in the link I posted true?

Honestly, I was shocked reading that piece.  With all of the attention, how has none of that been reported?  There are only a couple reasons I can come up with - if those things are factual.

Yep, his lawyer claims his nose was broken during the incident. Can't say if the stuff in your link is factual but much of what was in that story I had read before through other sources. The info is out there, Biggs, but it does not get  prominent play

Biggs3535

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« #91 : March 24, 2012, 10:30:31 PM »

Zimmerman's attorney also claims that his client suffered a broken nose in the altercation does not use racial slurs and was in fact a mentor to two African American teens.

Was his nose broken?  Were any of those facts in the link I posted true?

Honestly, I was shocked reading that piece.  With all of the attention, how has none of that been reported?  There are only a couple reasons I can come up with - if those things are factual.

Yep, his lawyer claims his nose was broken during the incident. Can't say if the stuff in your link is factual but much of what was in that story I had read before through other sources. The info is out there, Biggs, but it does not get  prominent play

Would you agree that those facts could lead the police to believe that Zimmerman wasn't simply a racist "white" guy just out to kill him a <insert racial slur here>?  Because for me, those facts completely change my outlook on the potential of racially charged murder vs. dummy cop wannbe.


Kelly Thomas

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« #92 : March 24, 2012, 10:56:56 PM »

Zimmerman's attorney also claims that his client suffered a broken nose in the altercation does not use racial slurs and was in fact a mentor to two African American teens.

Was his nose broken?  Were any of those facts in the link I posted true?

Honestly, I was shocked reading that piece.  With all of the attention, how has none of that been reported?  There are only a couple reasons I can come up with - if those things are factual.

Yep, his lawyer claims his nose was broken during the incident. Can't say if the stuff in your link is factual but much of what was in that story I had read before through other sources. The info is out there, Biggs, but it does not get  prominent play

Would you agree that those facts could lead the police to believe that Zimmerman wasn't simply a racist "white" guy just out to kill him a <insert racial slur here>?  Because for me, those facts completely change my outlook on the potential of racially charged murder vs. dummy cop wannbe.

If those facts are real facts then how could it not?

*Read about this a few days ago but I figured while I was trying to shut down the Sharpton stuff, I'd throw out some red meat and see how long it took for this to surface as part of the whole picture. Good heads up
« : March 24, 2012, 11:27:28 PM Durango 95 »

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« #93 : March 25, 2012, 12:00:50 AM »

Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

There are also several facts pointed out in this article that are being represented in half-truthian fashion. For example, the writer describes Martin as a "towering 6'2” football player." Martin was tall, but he was a string bean. Zimmerman probably had about 50 or 60 lbs on the kid, at least. Also, this writer, as well as many in this thread have attempted to play up Zimmerman's Latino roots, as though being half Latino automatically excludes the notion that Zimmerman might be a racist. It doesn't.

Most of the facts in this article are irrelevant anyway. If Zimmerman isn't chasing Martin, none of this happens. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin was the victim. If I punch you, and you go to punch me back, and I shoot you, is that self defense?


Kelly Thomas

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« #94 : March 25, 2012, 02:19:04 AM »

Zimmerman's attorney also claims that his client suffered a broken nose in the altercation does not use racial slurs and was in fact a mentor to two African American teens.

Was his nose broken?  Were any of those facts in the link I posted true?

Honestly, I was shocked reading that piece.  With all of the attention, how has none of that been reported?  There are only a couple reasons I can come up with - if those things are factual.


Yep, his lawyer claims his nose was broken during the incident. Can't say if the stuff in your link is factual but much of what was in that story I had read before through other sources. The info is out there, Biggs, but it does not get  prominent play

Would you agree that those facts could lead the police to believe that Zimmerman wasn't simply a racist "white" guy just out to kill him a <insert racial slur here>?
Because for me, those facts completely change my outlook on the potential of racially charged murder vs. dummy cop wannbe.

If those facts are real facts then how could it not?

*Read about this a few days ago but I figured while I was trying to shut down the Sharpton stuff, I'd throw out some red meat and see how long it took for this to surface as part of the whole picture. Good heads up

On second thought Biggs... if those facts are real facts then they would more likely exonerate  Ziimmerman of violating Stand your Ground in the eyes of the SPD. At this point who can really say how much they considered the race stuff?
« : March 25, 2012, 02:22:47 AM Durango 95 »

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« #95 : March 25, 2012, 06:40:05 AM »

Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

There are also several facts pointed out in this article that are being represented in half-truthian fashion. For example, the writer describes Martin as a "towering 6'2” football player." Martin was tall, but he was a string bean. Zimmerman probably had about 50 or 60 lbs on the kid, at least. Also, this writer, as well as many in this thread have attempted to play up Zimmerman's Latino roots, as though being half Latino automatically excludes the notion that Zimmerman might be a racist. It doesn't.

Most of the facts in this article are irrelevant anyway. If Zimmerman isn't chasing Martin, none of this happens. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin was the victim. If I punch you, and you go to punch me back, and I shoot you, is that self defense?
CBW your the only one calling Zimmerman an aggressor. I haven't seen any "Official Reports" calling him that just media reports from people. If he was the one following "because he was on an errand for himself and saw a su**CENSORED**ious character to check out in an area that has been a crime area at or around his home how can you come up with the definite term of aggressor? The "media" has also put out there the police reports of robbery and how many times the area was robbed. Before putting your conclusion to define anyone's acts it would seem to wait for the actual findings before the frenzy.

There were neighbors who actually have backed up Zimmerman's claim but I don't see the reports of that anywhere in writing. I am thinking they want to keep a low profile because they are his "neighbors" surrounded by the same folks provoking a frenzy before the findings. I would tend then to let the Police, FBI and DOJ get their investigation under way and then see their conclusions to see if it all pans out the way the police saw it or if they are finding collusion on behalf of people involved...JMVHO...OBD



Kelly Thomas

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« #96 : March 25, 2012, 08:24:34 AM »

As the investigation into the investigation of the killing of Trayvon Martin continues, new facts are beginning to surface, and the Fox affiliate in Orlando found an anonymous witness who spoke to them in George Zimmerman‘s defense, saying he saw the man who was mostly the aggressor in the struggle fall on the grass, dead.

Tampa Bay’s Fox 13 reported Friday that the witness, who agreed only to be identified as “John,” saw the struggle and it was his testimony the police used to let Zimmerman go free (John spoke to Fox 13′s Orlando Affiliate, Fox 35 on February 27th). His statements to the cops were instrumental because Sanford police say those screams you hear, the anchor notes, are Zimmerman’s and not Martin’s. Says John: “When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”

The police report allegedly included notes of Zimmerman’s shirt being wet and grassy on the back, a sign of struggle. What it also includes, though, according to this report, is an initial assessment of the situation as “manslaughter and unnecessarily killing to prevent an unlawful act,” according to the first police officer on the scene.


This story is far from over as the story develops and Zimmerman’s side comes up to light. Given that the witness is anonymous and the only on-the-record supporters of Zimmerman’s are his parents, his neighbor, and his lawyer, however, a reasonable explanation for his behavior appears quite elusive. The station also compiled Zimmerman’s history of 911 calls, the police report from the night of Martin’s death, and a number of other handy documents to understand the situation.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous-witness-police-used-tells-local-news-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/

Biggs3535

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« #97 : March 25, 2012, 10:09:55 AM »

On second thought Biggs... if those facts are real facts then they would more likely exonerate  Ziimmerman of violating Stand your Ground in the eyes of the SPD. At this point who can really say how much they considered the race stuff?

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess Zimmerman might face some jail time based on the chase alone, after being told not to.  But that's much different that what the media and race-baitors are wanting now.



Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

There are also several facts pointed out in this article that are being represented in half-truthian fashion. For example, the writer describes Martin as a "towering 6'2” football player." Martin was tall, but he was a string bean. Zimmerman probably had about 50 or 60 lbs on the kid, at least.

I don't see the half-truth.  If he was a 6'2" football player, then he was a 6'2" football player.  The writer didn't say he outweighed Zimmerman.



Also, this writer, as well as many in this thread have attempted to play up Zimmerman's Latino roots, as though being half Latino automatically excludes the notion that Zimmerman might be a racist. It doesn't.

Agreed.  A Latino can be bigoted as well.  But the point the writer is making is that media and race-baitors are trying to make this a white/black thing - because of race and politics.  Why this is still disputed is beyond me.



Most of the facts in this article are irrelevant anyway.

Of course they are - even though they completely change the story that has been portrayed by the National Media and race-baitors....


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« #98 : March 25, 2012, 10:23:13 AM »

Currently undisclosed facts like the number of bullets shot and the forensics will play a huge part in how this case unfolds. Until we know more about those two things everyone is just speculating. If for example the forensic indicate a single bullet being fired upward from a prone position at close range then you probably have your answer to the stand your ground defense. Just have to wait and see. Another key issue will be the timing. The time lapse between the 911 operator saying do not follow and the actual event will be very significant because right now it seems many people assume that his not following the do not follow instruction is a sign of aggression. If the shooting event is several minutes later in a different location on the property and the forensics are as suggested in my earlier comments then there isn't much to go with the not following the instructions equals aggressive argument.


The hypotheticals I am presenting is why trials do not occur until after an extensive period of discovery and also why frankly why one should be careful to not rush to a conclusion or a judgment before knowing all the facts. Remember even though the facts might not ultimately support the initial conclusion the police did not feel that they had probable cause for an arrest
« : March 25, 2012, 10:29:43 AM vincepb3 »


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« #99 : March 25, 2012, 11:29:46 AM »

Is this article slanted or are there some actual facts that aren't being reported by the National Media and race-baitors like the Rev?

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

There are also several facts pointed out in this article that are being represented in half-truthian fashion. For example, the writer describes Martin as a "towering 6'2” football player." Martin was tall, but he was a string bean. Zimmerman probably had about 50 or 60 lbs on the kid, at least.

I don't see the half-truth.  If he was a 6'2" football player, then he was a 6'2" football player.  The writer didn't say he outweighed Zimmerman.

The media never suggested that Zimmerman was bigger than Martin either. Why would the author suggest that it be pertinent to include that Martin was 6'2" and a football player? Big scary black guy would change the perception, correct? The author is suggesting that this was purposely left out to create a false narrative. It was left out because it was irrelevant, and he decided to put this out there to create his own narrative.

Also, this writer, as well as many in this thread have attempted to play up Zimmerman's Latino roots, as though being half Latino automatically excludes the notion that Zimmerman might be a racist. It doesn't.

Agreed.  A Latino can be bigoted as well.  But the point the writer is making is that media and race-baitors are trying to make this a white/black thing - because of race and politics.  Why this is still disputed is beyond me.

Nobody disputed it. And in no story on the issue that I have seen has the media neglected to point out that Zimmerman was half-Latino. Not a single one.

Most of the facts in this article are irrelevant anyway.

Of course they are - even though they completely change the story that has been portrayed by the National Media and race-baitors....

Zimmerman is also frequently called a neighborhood watch member. What's not reported is that neighborhood watches need to be registered and members need to be trained. The neighborhood that Zimmerman lives in has no registered neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman is not registered, received no proper training, and therefor, is not a neighborhood watchman. I tend to think that might change the story a bit too, don't you think? Funny, that article of yours never makes mention of this fact.


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« #100 : March 25, 2012, 12:22:02 PM »

Most of the facts in this article are irrelevant anyway. If Zimmerman isn't chasing Martin, none of this happens. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin was the victim. If I punch you, and you go to punch me back, and I shoot you, is that self defense?

They might be relevant if he ever goes to trial. May get him a lesser jail term if he's convicted. But yes, if he would have backed off as the operator told him to do, none of this
happens. Instead, he muttered, "Effing C**ns" and then confronted the kid.

As far as him being able to claim a Stand Your Ground defense? Some folks (quoted in the article if you click on the link) say yes and others disagree...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/24/republican-leaders-express-sympathy-support-stand-your-ground/#ixzz1q97idR6z

Former GOP Gov. Jeb Bush, who signed the bill into law, said Friday evening the law shouldn't protect the neighborhood watch captain who hasn't been arrested in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

"Stand your ground means stand your ground,” Bush said following a speech at the University of Texas at Arlington. “It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back."

* * *

Dennis Baxley, a Republican in the Florida House who sponsored the legislation, said earlier this week that he has "great sympathy" for the Martin family and is pleased that investigations are going forward. However, he does not think the Florida law - similar to one in 26 other states – does not seem to apply.

"There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense," Baxley wrote in an opinion piece for Fox News.

He pointed out the legislation was drafted and passed as a result of looting of property in the aftermath of hurricanes.

Baxley cited the specific situation in the panhandle of Florida where a resident moved an RV onto his property to protect the remains of his home from being looted. One evening, a perpetrator broke into the RV and attacked the property owner. The property owner, acting in self-defense in his home, shot and killed the perpetrator, he said.

"The facets of the castle doctrine deal with using force to meet force as an act of self-defense when in your home, in your car, on your property, or anywhere you are legally able to be," Baxley wrote. "Quite simply the castle doctrine is a good law which now protects individuals in a majority of states. However, the castle doctrine does not provide protection to individuals who seek to pursue and confront others, as is allegedly the case in the Trayvon Martin tragedy in Sanford."

« : March 25, 2012, 12:23:36 PM ufojoe »

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« #101 : March 25, 2012, 01:07:24 PM »

The media never suggested that Zimmerman was bigger than Martin either. Why would the author suggest that it be pertinent to include that Martin was 6'2" and a football player? Big scary black guy would change the perception, correct? The author is suggesting that this was purposely left out to create a false narrative. It was left out because it was irrelevant, and he decided to put this out there to create his own narrative.

I'm pretty sure the author explained himself pretty clearly in the article.  The outdated pic of Martin that being shown is of a younger Trayvon.  Just stating a fact that he's a 6'2" football player, not a baby-faced teenager.  I'm not sure why stating this fact is a problem, unless one is trying to change the narrative.



Nobody disputed it. And in no story on the issue that I have seen has the media neglected to point out that Zimmerman was half-Latino. Not a single one.

You must be joking.  It's the exception when Zimmerman is referenced as anything other than white.



Zimmerman is also frequently called a neighborhood watch member. What's not reported is that neighborhood watches need to be registered and members need to be trained. The neighborhood that Zimmerman lives in has no registered neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman is not registered, received no proper training, and therefor, is not a neighborhood watchman. I tend to think that might change the story a bit too, don't you think? Funny, that article of yours never makes mention of this fact.

Whether Zimmerman does or doesn't belong to a registered neighborhood watch program is irrelevant to the case.  Either way, your information is about neighborhood watches needing to be registered is incorrect:


Quote
Some Neighborhood Watch groups patrol their communities. Others simply observe in the course of their daily routine and report anything out of the ordinary to law enforcement.

The Neighborhood Watch at Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Zimmerman lived and was chosen as coordinator by his neighbors, was formed in September, Dorival said. It is not registered with the national group, but there is no registration requirement. The Sanford Police Department provides training and community signs, and informs residents about crime trends and prevention.

Sorry, CBWx2.  Big Government doesn't have their hands around Neighborhood Watches - not yet, at least.


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« #102 : March 25, 2012, 02:38:28 PM »


Why is it consistently phrased as "pursue and confront"? One does not automatically lead to the other, although it seems a lot of people would like us to assume that it does.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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« #103 : March 25, 2012, 04:05:38 PM »

For ufojoe, the jury would not hear what  the legislators think the law was meant to mean

For CBW, when every resident testifies that Zimmerman was their neighborhood watchman the question of registration would be moot anyway. Elevating style over substance. People are not idiots.
« : March 25, 2012, 04:08:16 PM vincepb3 »


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« #104 : March 25, 2012, 07:18:55 PM »

The media never suggested that Zimmerman was bigger than Martin either. Why would the author suggest that it be pertinent to include that Martin was 6'2" and a football player? Big scary black guy would change the perception, correct? The author is suggesting that this was purposely left out to create a false narrative. It was left out because it was irrelevant, and he decided to put this out there to create his own narrative.

I'm pretty sure the author explained himself pretty clearly in the article.  The outdated pic of Martin that being shown is of a younger Trayvon.  Just stating a fact that he's a 6'2" football player, not a baby-faced teenager.  I'm not sure why stating this fact is a problem, unless one is trying to change the narrative.

Martin being a 6'2" football player doesn't mean he wasn't a baby-faced teenager. The fact is, he was both. He was a tall, skinny 17 year old kid. Not Quincy Black or Arrelious Benn, which is the image one would have when someone thinks of a 6'2" football player.

One has to question why the writer thought it pertinent to list Martin's height and the fact that he played football, and not his weight, nor did he think it pertinent to list Zimmerman's height and weight. For the record, Martin was 6'3" and 140lbs. Zimmerman is 5'9" and roughly 250 lbs.

Nobody disputed it. And in no story on the issue that I have seen has the media neglected to point out that Zimmerman was half-Latino. Not a single one.

You must be joking.  It's the exception when Zimmerman is referenced as anything other than white.

Not joking in the least. The first time I saw this story reported, it was mentioned that Zimmerman was half-Latino, and it's been mentioned in every story I've seen since then. Hell, you can tell by the guy's picture, which is always shown in relation to the story, that the dude isn't 100% white. I think the author may be fabricating this a bit to continue his anti-civil rights narrative. The reason Zimmerman is labeled a racist isn't because he's white, it's because he said something racist.

Zimmerman is also frequently called a neighborhood watch member. What's not reported is that neighborhood watches need to be registered and members need to be trained. The neighborhood that Zimmerman lives in has no registered neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman is not registered, received no proper training, and therefor, is not a neighborhood watchman. I tend to think that might change the story a bit too, don't you think? Funny, that article of yours never makes mention of this fact.

Whether Zimmerman does or doesn't belong to a registered neighborhood watch program is irrelevant to the case. 

Martin being a football player is relevant, but Zimmerman not being in the neighborhood watch isn't? Seems to me, that's a big part of his defense.

Either way, your information is about neighborhood watches needing to be registered is incorrect:


Quote
Some Neighborhood Watch groups patrol their communities. Others simply observe in the course of their daily routine and report anything out of the ordinary to law enforcement.

The Neighborhood Watch at Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Zimmerman lived and was chosen as coordinator by his neighbors, was formed in September, Dorival said. It is not registered with the national group, but there is no registration requirement. The Sanford Police Department provides training and community signs, and informs residents about crime trends and prevention.

Sorry, CBWx2.  Big Government doesn't have their hands around Neighborhood Watches - not yet, at least.

It's not about big government, Biggs. You don't register with the government, you register with the national Neighborhood watch organization to receive training and resources. The group Zimmerman belonged to did not do that. The extent to which he was actually trained by the Sanford Police cannot be known, but what would have been known, is the kind of training he received from the national group had they registered with them.

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