Trayvon Martin controversy

[Biggs3535]

If you think that law enforcement agencies make it a general policy to review every case over again after the first time, then you are woefully uninformed.

Nobody said it's a general policy to review every case over and over again.  When you have to jump to hyperbole such as this, you lose.

What you do seem to be ignorant on is the amount of cases that are reviewed.  On questionable cases such as this, it's not uncommon at all.

Who calls for these cases to be reviewed? Do law enforcement agencies just do it in the interest of being thorough?

Yes.  Reports are filed.  If and when there are discrepancies, reviews and investigations are held.  Police officers are put on paid leave for things like this all of the time.  I see it all of the time on the local level.

 

But what you don't get, is that the civil rights activists that organized the rally's and those that kept this in the media are the reason why this is getting looked into again. Without the hoopla, this gets swept under the rug, and Zimmerman is free to continue living out his Dirty Harry fantasies.

That's quite a bit of speculation on your part.

No it isn't.

CBWx2, what you're doing here is the very definition of speculation.  It's not even arguable.

[Chief Joseph]

Are we still pretending this isn't about politics and race?

I hardly think thats why Obama and Romney are taking an interest in this case 

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama spoke out Friday on the Trayvon Martin shooting for the first time, calling the incident a “tragedy” and invoking his own children.

“I can only imagine what these parents are going through,” the president said, adding that he couldn’t help but think about his daughters. “I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this.

“My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin,” he added. “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

The president said he was pleased to hear that Florida Gov. Rick Scott has appointed a task force to look into the incident.

“I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen,”

Noting that his attorney general is looking into the case, the president prefaced his remarks by saying it was important he was not “impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.”

Obama’s remarks came as he stood in the Rose Garden to introduce his new choice for the president of the World Bank.

They were his first remarks on the incident. The White House earlier in the week noted it was a “local” event.

Travyon’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, issued a statement after the Obama spoke, saying it was “humbling” that the president had taken time to talk about their son.

“The president's personal comments touched us deeply and made us wonder: If his son looked liked Trayvon and wore a hoodie, would he be su**CENSORED**ious too?” the statement said. “We'd like to thank the president and the millions of people from around the world who have shown their support for Trayvon by participating in hoodie marches, rallies or through social media. We are all working together to not only get justice for Trayvon, but also to ensure that this kind of senseless tragedy doesn't happen to another child.”

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney also issued a statement Friday about the case.

“What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy,” Romney said “There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/2709583/president-trayvon-case-a-tragedy.html#storylink=cpy

Asked about the 54 people shot in Chicago last weekend, the President added "No one gives a crap about them - they don't provide any political leverage."

[CBWx2]

If you think that law enforcement agencies make it a general policy to review every case over again after the first time, then you are woefully uninformed.

Nobody said it's a general policy to review every case over and over again.  When you have to jump to hyperbole such as this, you lose.

What you do seem to be ignorant on is the amount of cases that are reviewed.  On questionable cases such as this, it's not uncommon at all.

Who calls for these cases to be reviewed? Do law enforcement agencies just do it in the interest of being thorough?

Yes.  Reports are filed.  If and when there are discrepancies, reviews and investigations are held.  Police officers are put on paid leave for things like this all of the time.  I see it all of the time on the local level.

Funny how many of the people on this MB that have such little faith in the bureaucratic process all of the sudden have complete faith in law enforcement bureaucracy. The shear number of cases that get filed make it utterly impossible for this to be the normal process. There simply aren't enough resources for that to be true.

The fact is, very few cases get reviewed with any degree of scrutiny unless outside factors press the issue, and virtually none get reviewed with the same degree of thoroughness that this case is getting reviewed with, now that the state and feds have gotten involved, without outside forces pressing the issue.

There are roughly 90-100 "Stand Your Ground" cases each year since the law was put into place in 2007. I can't think of a single case where the state or feds got involved because of a questionable outcome besides this one, and there have been many with questionable outcomes.
 

But what you don't get, is that the civil rights activists that organized the rally's and those that kept this in the media are the reason why this is getting looked into again. Without the hoopla, this gets swept under the rug, and Zimmerman is free to continue living out his Dirty Harry fantasies.

That's quite a bit of speculation on your part.

No it isn't.

CBWx2, what you're doing here is the very definition of speculation.  It's not even arguable.

It's not speculation, it's common sense. State and federal law enforcement does not involve itself in every case with questionable reports. If they did, there would be little time for them to do anything else. The squeaky wheels are the one's that get the grease, and in this case, the protests and media scrutiny made this case squeak way too loudly for it to be ignored.

[spartan]

The fact is, very few cases get reviewed with any degree of scrutiny unless outside factors press the issue, and virtually none get reviewed with the same degree of thoroughness that this case is getting reviewed with, now that the state and feds have gotten involved, without outside forces pressing the issue.

There are roughly 90-100 "Stand Your Ground" cases each year since the law was put into place in 2007. I can't think of a single case where the state or feds got involved because of a questionable outcome besides this one, and there have been many with questionable outcomes.
 

Which I do not think anybody has a problem with. What people resent is when it is turned into a race war when, at best, there is very speculative and interpreted evidence that it has anything to do with race.

[spartan]

This is what was reported the day of the shooting. At the very least I think it is grounds to think that this is not a clear an issue as some would like to suggest. It is also reported that Zimmerman was not arrested but was almost patted on the back, given his gun and sent on his way, when in fact the gun was removed, he was cuffed, taken to the Police Station and questioned for 5 hours.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4


Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation
Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 10:02 AM EDT
Published : Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 4:55 PM EST

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area.   The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane.  A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately.  He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.

Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.

[Durango 95]

What people resent is when it is turned into a race war when, at best, there is very speculative and interpreted evidence that it has anything to do with race.

Can you believe that? Some people rant about Al Sharpton for 5 pages and think it's wrong when external political forces are brought into the discussion.

Say did you ever hear the story about the kid that shot his parents then complained he was an orphan?

[Durango 95]

Posting photos of Al Sharpton is so much more productive....weeeeeee!

[spartan]

And making it sound that Zimmerman is some uber mensch  who executed Trayvon Martin for no other reason than he was black is so much more productive than say, an idiot who probably put himself in a bad situation and then compounded it by doing something stupid. One gets massive headlines, the other doesn't.

The last time something like this happened and Al Sharpton injected himself into it was the Tawana Bawley and Duke Lacrosse players fiasco. I believe the same rhetoric and calls for public execution were used then. How did that turn out?

[Durango 95]

The last time something like this happened and Al Sharpton injected himself into it was the Tawana Bawley and Duke Lacrosse players fiasco. I believe the same rhetoric and calls for public execution were used then. How did that turn out?

It turned out he was lying.
That's why I never pay attention to what he says. You should try that sometime.

[dbucfan]

Can't deal with Sharpton - his history prevents me from believing him - so he is a waste of time imvho

[spartan]

The last time something like this happened and Al Sharpton injected himself into it was the Tawana Bawley and Duke Lacrosse players fiasco. I believe the same rhetoric and calls for public execution were used then. How did that turn out?

It turned out he was lying.
That's why I never pay attention to what he says. You should try that sometime.

A lot of people DO listen to him though. That is the problem.

[Chief Joseph]

He says what they want to hear.

[Biggs3535]

Funny how many of the people on this MB that have such little faith in the bureaucratic process all of the sudden have complete faith in law enforcement bureaucracy.

Again with the hyperbole?  Nobody even came remotely close to saying this.

The fact is, very few cases get reviewed with any degree of scrutiny unless outside factors press the issue, and virtually none get reviewed with the same degree of thoroughness that this case is getting reviewed with, now that the state and feds have gotten involved, without outside forces pressing the issue.

This is, again, speculation and extremely far from a "fact".  Hell, I'd guess almost all law enforcement agencies have an Internal Affairs department who do these things on a daily basis.


 

It's not speculation

Of course it is.  You have no idea what would or would not have happened, and you're purely speculating about it.  The fact that you can't recognize that is stunning.

[Durango 95]

The last time something like this happened and Al Sharpton injected himself into it was the Tawana Bawley and Duke Lacrosse players fiasco. I believe the same rhetoric and calls for public execution were used then. How did that turn out?

It turned out he was lying.
That's why I never pay attention to what he says. You should try that sometime.

A lot of people DO listen to him though. That is the problem.

No, the problem is a shooting in which the allowances in the Stand Your Ground law are being called into question. Which is compounded by the perception of racial animus on behalf of Zimmerman, as it relates to motivation.

spartan debate/off

[ufojoe]

Spartan hears a P sound when it clearly sounds like C word that is a derogatory word for blacks. It's as if Spartan doesn't want race to be a part of this case for whatever reason.
Make of that what you will. Please tell us what P word, that rhymes with dunes, makes sense?

As somebody else said, Zimmerman injected the race angle with his own words.

Zimmerman was told to stop following the kid and refused to listen. Whatever happened, he instigated it. Like others, I hope he is served some swift and harsh justice.