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CBWx2

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#60 : April 04, 2012, 09:59:33 PM

I think joining the armed forces can be a noble thing, but that doesn't mean that everyone who is in the military is noble. Both of my folks are retired military, so it's not as though I have some gripe with the armed forces. I just think people get carried away with the catch phrases like "they are hero's" and "they are fighting for our freedom". Some of them are hero's, but not all of them. Some of them joined with the intent to fight for freedom, but not all of them. Some of the military folks I've come across in my life were stand up men and women, and some of them were complete sleazeballs. The hero worship can be a bit over the top, and often times, isn't really deserved, IMO.


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#61 : April 04, 2012, 10:06:54 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.

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#62 : April 04, 2012, 10:11:13 PM

damn those that fought for my freedom!!!!!! im going to freely whine about people showing them small forms of thank yous by letting them get in line before me!!!!

this has to be the most ignorant person on the planet. Its times like these I wish the N-word wasnt tied to a race because its the perfect fit here by definition.
If you call shooting up farmers in Afhgan, "fighting for my freedom", then you've got to be the most ignorant person on the planet.

And it's not "freely" whining if my tax dollars are paying their salary which means I can say whatever the **CENSORED** I want.
You're free and working - say what you want when you want.  Others don't agree - then you have to decide if you have the azz to take it. 

Now - having an issue with the guys on the ground for the decisions made in how to prosecute the war in Afghanistan is a pretty big reach... and one I don't agree with.  But this isn't my issue - this is one you are working out for you.
I don't mind when others disagree in a civil manner but when it goes into attack mode, save it for when we are face to face. I can take it. ;)

"How to prosecute the war in Afghanistan" is your issue and it's a moral one. Just like Vietnam was allowed to unfold because, even though most people didn't agree with the reasons and the resources being exhuasted for said reasons, they didn't think it was their issue.


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wreck ship

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#63 : April 04, 2012, 10:13:45 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.
That's what I was thinking but didn't know how to word it.

That is a jewel sir that swine will trample over without thought.

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
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#64 : April 04, 2012, 10:20:16 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.
That's what I was thinking but didn't know how to word it.

That is a jewel sir that swine will trample over without thought.

lol.

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#65 : April 04, 2012, 10:29:39 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.

True, but not sure how it comes into play here. Is it patriotism to show respect to someone who may have just walked out of a combat zone because the people we voted to run the country decided that was where they were going to be? Some do it for patriotic reasons, some do it because they have been there and understand little things mean a lot sometimes, some do it like sheep, some do it because they truly appreciate the service these guys and gals provide. Wrapping everything up into some neat bushel doesn't apply here IMO.

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#66 : April 04, 2012, 10:31:46 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.
That's what I was thinking but didn't know how to word it.

That is a jewel sir that swine will trample over without thought.

Swine? Care to explain what you mean by that?

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#67 : April 04, 2012, 10:44:44 PM

damn those that fought for my freedom!!!!!! im going to freely whine about people showing them small forms of thank yous by letting them get in line before me!!!!

this has to be the most ignorant person on the planet. Its times like these I wish the N-word wasnt tied to a race because its the perfect fit here by definition.
If you call shooting up farmers in Afhgan, "fighting for my freedom", then you've got to be the most ignorant person on the planet.

And it's not "freely" whining if my tax dollars are paying their salary which means I can say whatever the **CENSORED** I want.
You're free and working - say what you want when you want.  Others don't agree - then you have to decide if you have the azz to take it. 

Now - having an issue with the guys on the ground for the decisions made in how to prosecute the war in Afghanistan is a pretty big reach... and one I don't agree with.  But this isn't my issue - this is one you are working out for you.
I don't mind when others disagree in a civil manner but when it goes into attack mode, save it for when we are face to face. I can take it. ;)

"How to prosecute the war in Afghanistan" is your issue and it's a moral one. Just like Vietnam was allowed to unfold because, even though most people didn't agree with the reasons and the resources being exhuasted for said reasons, they didn't think it was their issue.
You the one who arrived with the confrontation in mind.  If it happens for you - well it is not a matter of taking it - it becomes a part of what folks think you are.  Very few care for my thoughts on war - so I keep them to myself almost always.  This is part of the almost always.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#68 : April 04, 2012, 10:46:02 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.

True, but not sure how it comes into play here. Is it patriotism to show respect to someone who may have just walked out of a combat zone because the people we voted to run the country decided that was where they were going to be? Some do it for patriotic reasons, some do it because they have been there and understand little things mean a lot sometimes, some do it like sheep, some do it because they truly appreciate the service these guys and gals provide. Wrapping everything up into some neat bushel doesn't apply here IMO.

Have you ever known me to wrap anything into a neat bushel?

But on the institutionalized patriotism thing, it's is never out of play. That's kind of the point I'm making.

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#69 : April 04, 2012, 10:48:18 PM

I think joining the armed forces can be a noble thing, but that doesn't mean that everyone who is in the military is noble. Both of my folks are retired military, so it's not as though I have some gripe with the armed forces. I just think people get carried away with the catch phrases like "they are hero's" and "they are fighting for our freedom". Some of them are hero's, but not all of them. Some of them joined with the intent to fight for freedom, but not all of them. Some of the military folks I've come across in my life were stand up men and women, and some of them were complete sleazeballs. The hero worship can be a bit over the top, and often times, isn't really deserved, IMO.
Well said.

I'd say 90% of todays servicemen and women would not enlist were it not for the financial benefits.
Can you say institutionalized patriotism?

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#70 : April 04, 2012, 10:55:50 PM

I'd say 90% of todays servicemen and women would not enlist were it not for the financial benefits.
Can you say institutionalized patriotism?
The financial benefits of enlistment?  I admit that I've been out for a while, but when I was in, I knew more than a few E5s who had second jobs to make ends meet.  Yes, yes, the educational benefits are not nothing (although they don't go nearly as far as they used to), but enlisted folk aren't exactly signing up for a life of luxury.
: April 04, 2012, 10:58:03 PM acacius

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#71 : April 04, 2012, 11:01:55 PM

damn those that fought for my freedom!!!!!! im going to freely whine about people showing them small forms of thank yous by letting them get in line before me!!!!

this has to be the most ignorant person on the planet. Its times like these I wish the N-word wasnt tied to a race because its the perfect fit here by definition.
If you call shooting up farmers in Afhgan, "fighting for my freedom", then you've got to be the most ignorant person on the planet.

And it's not "freely" whining if my tax dollars are paying their salary which means I can say whatever the **CENSORED** I want.
You're free and working - say what you want when you want.  Others don't agree - then you have to decide if you have the azz to take it. 

Now - having an issue with the guys on the ground for the decisions made in how to prosecute the war in Afghanistan is a pretty big reach... and one I don't agree with.  But this isn't my issue - this is one you are working out for you.
I don't mind when others disagree in a civil manner but when it goes into attack mode, save it for when we are face to face. I can take it. ;)

"How to prosecute the war in Afghanistan" is your issue and it's a moral one. Just like Vietnam was allowed to unfold because, even though most people didn't agree with the reasons and the resources being exhuasted for said reasons, they didn't think it was their issue.
You the one who arrived with the confrontation in mind.  If it happens for you - well it is not a matter of taking it - it becomes a part of what folks think you are.  Very few care for my thoughts on war - so I keep them to myself almost always.  This is part of the almost always.
I didn't think I arrived with confrontation on my mind but the way you put I can see how it came about.

I'm anti-war, anti-military and if I get one hardcord militant minded patriot to think of heroes as being other than gun toting g.i. joes then it's all worth it.


philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

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#72 : April 04, 2012, 11:09:41 PM

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

institutionalized patriotism is not necessarily voluntary nor is it necessarily sincere.

True, but not sure how it comes into play here. Is it patriotism to show respect to someone who may have just walked out of a combat zone because the people we voted to run the country decided that was where they were going to be? Some do it for patriotic reasons, some do it because they have been there and understand little things mean a lot sometimes, some do it like sheep, some do it because they truly appreciate the service these guys and gals provide. Wrapping everything up into some neat bushel doesn't apply here IMO.

Have you ever known me to wrap anything into a neat bushel?

But on the institutionalized patriotism thing, it's is never out of play. That's kind of the point I'm making.

On the latter, yes, but why focus on the negative when for the most part the driving factor is positive and honorable?

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#73 : April 04, 2012, 11:12:33 PM

I'd say 90% of todays servicemen and women would not enlist were it not for the financial benefits.
Can you say institutionalized patriotism?
The financial benefits of enlistment?  I admit that I've been out for a while, but when I was in, I knew more than a few E5s who had second jobs to make ends meet.  Yes, yes, the educational benefits are not nothing (although they don't go nearly as far as they used to), but enlisted folk aren't exactly signing up for a life of luxury.
My point was, there is no way a high schooler is signing up for the military unless they see how it can benefit THEM. Not others.
 
Once in, some see the financial benefits of retiring from the military and make it a career. Then they retire and go into ccccc...contracting. The ultimate waste of tax payers money.

Case in point...look at where the high school recruiting stations are set up. You might find 2 or 3 different branches of the military on one public high scool campus yet private schools don't want any of them set up in eye sight of their schools.


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#74 : April 04, 2012, 11:15:38 PM

Anyways, back to subject matter. The first I observed this kind of thing was servicemen and service women being paid respect by older veterans, i.e. Vietnam vets who were treated like a piece of **CENSORED** when they came back from the combat zone. They made clear and visible signs of respect that said, been there and seen that son, you're not alone. People caught on.

It is, and has always been VOLUNTARY. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Easy when you get down to it.

Maybe I missed what you're referring to in this thread but the OP was whining about the airlines' policy of allowing service personnel to board the plane before the bulk of the passengers .... not something that was voluntary.
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