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youngone

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#15 : April 21, 2012, 06:03:19 PM

I really think this value crap is overrated and overblown if he is your guy take him.


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#16 : April 21, 2012, 06:03:51 PM

The trade down option will depend solely on how high teams value LT Kalil provided Claiborne goes #3 to MIN. If they don't value him then that's not exactly Dominik's fault. LT is premium position. We'll have to see.

Draft can't here any sooner!

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#17 : April 21, 2012, 06:19:22 PM

Hopefully.

LBs are pretty important and we dont have one good one.

I disagree. Foster played out of position last year, and did a serviceable job, considering the obvious lack of coaching.

You get Kuechly for Mike and put Foster at Will (seemingly, his natural position), and it's a very different LB corp - one that I believe, from the beginning, can be very good, especially with better coaching.

Also, don't forget about Dekoda Watson. He may very well be the proverbial "diamond in the rough." Again, with better coaching, who knows what he could become.

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#18 : April 21, 2012, 06:24:01 PM

If they truly DO intend to this, they'd better trade down somewhere. I have no problem taking him, but at #5 that's a terrible value.

Call up Jacksonville, Buffalo, whoever. Even if they don't give you the value you probably should get, just take what they'll give you and get him later. And if some other team happens to reach, take Barron or even Floyd. If we take a MLB with no pass rush at #5 overall, I'll be pissed.


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#19 : April 21, 2012, 06:44:50 PM

Hopefully.

LBs are pretty important and we dont have one good one.

I disagree. Foster played out of position last year, and did a serviceable job, considering the obvious lack of coaching.

You get Kuechly for Mike and put Foster at Will (seemingly, his natural position), and it's a very different LB corp - one that I believe, from the beginning, can be very good, especially with better coaching.

Also, don't forget about Dekoda Watson. He may very well be the proverbial "diamond in the rough." Again, with better coaching, who knows what he could become.


All I see there is speculation and potential. Something this team has loads of...

One thing they dont have a large amount of....players who we dont have to sit here and make 1000's of excuses for..or have to wait 2-3 years for them to live out their potential..of getting to average.

I do agree that Foster moving to to OLB could help him get to where he needs to be as a solid starter.

He is the only one on the roster I think will pan out as a starter...

How we look at Biggers right now...will be how we see Watson a year from now.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.



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#20 : April 21, 2012, 06:50:50 PM

Kuelchy has a grade of 95   Barron   94   (ESPN).    Wouldn't it make more sense to take Barron (in a trade down senario of course)  and then take David or Kendricks in round two? The drop from Safety is huge.

I like Barron a lot agree there is a huge drop off at S.

You could also consider Hightower or Glimore/ Kirkpatrick in a trade down.

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#21 : April 21, 2012, 06:54:31 PM

Kansas City covets Kalil according to Russ Lande (GM JR) heard 1 hour ago on radio. Said they would trade up if he got past Vikings with either Browns or Tampa if Browns make a pick. So at #11 Kuechly should be there and we pick up at least a high #2.


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#22 : April 21, 2012, 06:56:53 PM

Kuelchy has a grade of 95   Barron   94   (ESPN).    Wouldn't it make more sense to take Barron (in a trade down senario of course)  and then take David or Kendricks in round two? The drop from Safety is huge.

I like Barron a lot agree there is a huge drop off at S.

You could also consider Hightower or Glimore/ Kirkpatrick in a trade down.

I disagree...I like Barron...but I think Harrison Smith will end up being a better pro.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

The Anti-Java

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#23 : April 21, 2012, 07:18:36 PM

Kansas City covets Kalil according to Russ Lande (GM JR) heard 1 hour ago on radio. Said they would trade up if he got past Vikings with either Browns or Tampa if Browns make a pick. So at #11 Kuechly should be there and we pick up at least a high #2.




Sounds good, I am lukewarm on Kuechly, but like him a lot better at #11 than #5.


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#24 : April 21, 2012, 07:26:43 PM

First, I always have a problem with when people mention 'value' at a pick.

Hindsight has shown us repeatedly that players who drafted lower than their play 2-3 years later would indicate, turn out to be better 'value'. For example, the year we took Adams, Willis was taken 11th by the 49'ers. I know some people here thought we should have taken Willis with that pick. Now, everyone here would have rather had Willis than Adams. At the time, Willis wasn't considered good 'value' for the 5th pick, in hindsight, he should have been the 3rd or 4th player drafted. So if the Bucs like Kuechly, in my opinion they shouldn't worry about whether the analysts think that was 'good value'.

That said, IF Claiborne and Richardson are gone and they can't trade out of the position, I think I would value Kuechly over Kalil, not because Kalil doesn't represent good 'value' it's just at the moment, the need for a linebacker is greater than our need for a offensive tackle. But in the end, I would be happy with either selection.

If the Bucs do trade down though, I'm not sure Kuechly will be there any more at 11 but Barron should be there. Barron also fills a need, so I would be okay with the Bucs selecting him but honestly, I wouldn't be overly happy about the selection. Still, we would pick up another 2nd rounder which would allow us to fill another need with a top 50 player, so instead of having 2 picks in the top 50 we would have 3 picks and I would be happy with that (and 4 in the first 3 rounds).

If we trade out of #5, I would really rather see a LB, CB and RB out of the first 2 rounds. If Claiborne and Richardson are gone, then I think I would really rather see the Bucs take Kuechly and then address CB or RB in the 2nd (and just say no to Jenkins please). If the Bucs do take Kalil, I hope they shop Penn during the draft and see if they can pick up a couple of picks for him rather than try to move Kalil to RT or force Penn to make that move. I would think that Buffalo would take Penn in a heart beat (didn't the Eagles lose their LT as well?). I would think we could get a 3rd and 4th for Penn or perhaps a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year.

JMO.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality



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#25 : April 21, 2012, 07:28:52 PM

If they truly DO intend to this, they'd better trade down somewhere. I have no problem taking him, but at #5 that's a terrible value.

Call up Jacksonville, Buffalo, whoever. Even if they don't give you the value you probably should get, just take what they'll give you and get him later. And if some other team happens to reach, take Barron or even Floyd. If we take a MLB with no pass rush at #5 overall, I'll be pissed.

Why is this "Kuechly can't blitz" theme being repeated?

I just don't see it.

He's not exceptional but he's good & will get even better.

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#26 : April 21, 2012, 07:41:19 PM

First, I always have a problem with when people mention 'value' at a pick.

Hindsight has shown us repeatedly that players who drafted lower than their play 2-3 years later would indicate, turn out to be better 'value'. For example, the year we took Adams, Willis was taken 11th by the 49'ers. I know some people here thought we should have taken Willis with that pick. Now, everyone here would have rather had Willis than Adams. At the time, Willis wasn't considered good 'value' for the 5th pick, in hindsight, he should have been the 3rd or 4th player drafted. So if the Bucs like Kuechly, in my opinion they shouldn't worry about whether the analysts think that was 'good value'.

That said, IF Claiborne and Richardson are gone and they can't trade out of the position, I think I would value Kuechly over Kalil, not because Kalil doesn't represent good 'value' it's just at the moment, the need for a linebacker is greater than our need for a offensive tackle. But in the end, I would be happy with either selection.

If the Bucs do trade down though, I'm not sure Kuechly will be there any more at 11 but Barron should be there. Barron also fills a need, so I would be okay with the Bucs selecting him but honestly, I wouldn't be overly happy about the selection. Still, we would pick up another 2nd rounder which would allow us to fill another need with a top 50 player, so instead of having 2 picks in the top 50 we would have 3 picks and I would be happy with that (and 4 in the first 3 rounds).

If we trade out of #5, I would really rather see a LB, CB and RB out of the first 2 rounds. If Claiborne and Richardson are gone, then I think I would really rather see the Bucs take Kuechly and then address CB or RB in the 2nd (and just say no to Jenkins please). If the Bucs do take Kalil, I hope they shop Penn during the draft and see if they can pick up a couple of picks for him rather than try to move Kalil to RT or force Penn to make that move. I would think that Buffalo would take Penn in a heart beat (didn't the Eagles lose their LT as well?). I would think we could get a 3rd and 4th for Penn or perhaps a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year.

JMO.





Although your right about LB being a bigger need than OL, how often do you get a chance at a blue chip O-lineman?  There is usually only a couple in every draft and they come off the board pretty high.  If things go as we all hope, it may be a long time before the Bucs pick #5 again.  Thus narrowing the chances of them getting a great O-lineman in future drafts.    So bottom line,  I would snag Kalil if he is sitting there.


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1Va bucsfan

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#27 : April 21, 2012, 08:37:55 PM

"it doesn't matter where you pick them. It matters how they play"! Bill Walsh

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Madman

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#28 : April 21, 2012, 08:42:44 PM

Is it really a "reach" if you select someone 3 or 4 spots "early", especially if it fills a big need?

What's the point in drafting for value if it ends up on the bench?

Jerod Mayo was considered a big reach when the Pat took him. Not anymore. A few spots is not a reach. Guy is def a top 10 pick.

rocko23

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#29 : April 21, 2012, 08:43:02 PM

"it doesn't matter where you pick them. It matters how they play"! Bill Walsh
yep  :D
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