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NotDeadYet

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« #15 : April 27, 2012, 07:50:25 AM »

     One thing Schiano noted regarding Barron that stood out to me; he saw a "physical presence" about him on the football field. That's the ONE thing I've NOT seen on video or heard any talent evaluators say about Kuechly, and no doubt drew the Ruud comparisons on the Red Board.
 It'll be interesting to see the two young men develop. Kuechly's a Kitty now so we'll see him twice a year for a while...

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« #16 : April 27, 2012, 07:52:43 AM »

     One thing Schiano noted regarding Barron that stood out to me; he saw a "physical presence" about him on the football field. That's the ONE thing I've NOT seen on video or heard any talent evaluators say about Kuechly, and no doubt drew the Ruud comparisons on the Red Board.
 It'll be interesting to see the two young men develop. Kuechly's a Kitty now so we'll see him twice a year for a while...

Yeah, I hate that we have to see Kuechly twice a year but hopefully our O-line and bulldozing tandem of RB's will keep him busy.

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« #17 : April 27, 2012, 07:55:21 AM »

This is a great article on Barron

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/john-lynch-sees-some-of-himself-in-tampa-bay-bucs-draft-pick-mark-barron/1227167

NotDeadYet

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« #18 : April 27, 2012, 08:08:59 AM »

This is a great article on Barron

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/john-lynch-sees-some-of-himself-in-tampa-bay-bucs-draft-pick-mark-barron/1227167
  Excellent; thanks for the post!!

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« #19 : April 27, 2012, 08:13:54 AM »

I wonder if this is true and how much it might have changed the Bucs mind on Claiborne. I don't know about others, but it would have changed mine (Florio - PFT):

One of the more surprising stores in advance of the draft related to the score generated by cornerback Morris Claiborne on the Wonderlic.  He scored only a four, and after being selected by the Cowboys with the sixth pick in the draft, he spoke about the test.

“That test don’t tell me who I am and what [type] of guy I am and what kind of ability I have,” Claiborne told SiriusXM NFL Radio, via USA Today.  “That test can’t drop me.”

In the end, it didn’t.  And when he was still on the board at No. 6, the Cowboys sprang up to get him.

“They say it’s an IQ test,” Claiborne added.  “I came to the Combine for football.  I looked at the test, and wasn’t any questions about football.  I didn’t see no point in the test.  I’m not in school anymore.  I didn’t complete it.  I only finished 15 or 18 questions.”

Claiborne’s attitude toward the test underscores the role of agent Bus Cook in the outcome.  It was Cook’s job to prepare Claiborne for everything he encountered at the Combine, and to get Claiborne ready for all aspects of the process — including the Wonderlic test.

By all appearances, Cook didn’t even tell Claiborne that he’d be taking any test that didn’t involve peeing.

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« #20 : April 27, 2012, 08:19:33 AM »

"The instincts, the big-play ability, the toughness, the athletic ability -- he's a game-changer," one NFC executive said. "And he's the type of person that makes the guys around him better. Plus, he makes a lot of plays on his own. With some of these kids, you have to go through three or four games to see them make five plays. This guy makes five plays in one quarter. He can do anything you want him to."

Barron is considered the only truly elite prospect in this crop of safeties. Notre Dame's Harrison Smith might sneak in the end of the first round, but that's a result of the fact that there's another steep drop-off after him. One exec said his club has a mid-second-round grade on Smith and added he's "not a difference-maker." Another exec said his team views the former Irish captain as a late-second-round or third-round prospect.


He was the best of this crop of S's but he's not a Sean Taylor level player and he's not Eric Berry level even as a prospect. I know it is time to switch into full rationalization mode - I love all the people who loved Barron when we never saw his name predraft for example - but game changing S is almost an oxymoron. You can't name many (I'm thinking you might go as as high as 2 in the NFL now - Polomalu and Reed) and when your pick has to ascend to that tiny a sphere of players that don't come along often you are setting an amazingly high barrier for getting your ROI out of a guy.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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« #21 : April 27, 2012, 08:31:12 AM »

- but game changing S is almost an oxymoron. You can't name many (I'm thinking you might go as as high as 2 in the NFL now - Polomalu and Reed)

really, how many game changing corners are in the NFL now?

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dalbuc

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« #22 : April 27, 2012, 08:45:01 AM »


really, how many game changing corners are in the NFL now?

More and even if he's not elite at CB being very good is still a value. Say he's not Revis but he's Asante Samuel that's a win. The problem at S is if you aren't one of the 2 of 64 that are elite then you are just another guy or awful - if you aren't Ed Reed then being Kam Chancellor is a huge step down (and Chancellor had a very good year as an S last year but 75% of the people on this board won't know where he played last year he's such a non-issue). That's really the problem where if he's not THAT guy then he's not much of anything.

This all comes down to the coverage skills. Some people like his skills, some do not. If he can't cover, if he's not a Jimmy Graham eraser then he's not a player in the top 10 at all. We'll know when he's covering Graham and shuts him down/slows him down that he's worth #7.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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« #23 : April 27, 2012, 09:32:59 AM »

Chancellor was used as a nickel LB last year, so maybe they do that with Barron?


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« #24 : April 27, 2012, 09:38:02 AM »

I like Barron well enough, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a "game-changer".  Polamalu, Reed, and Berry are the only "game-changing" Safety's in the league right now, and Barron's not on their level as a player.  Good, solid NFL player though.  But I still think picking him @ 7 was a reach.  Hope he turns into that game-changer over time.


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« #25 : April 27, 2012, 09:38:53 AM »

In the right defense I would say safeties can be as important as CB's, especially the elite ones, not to compare to the Tampa 2 directly but one of the main aspects of that defense was taking the best players and putting them in the middle of the field, Barber, Brooks, etc.

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« #26 : April 27, 2012, 09:45:59 AM »

Regardless of what his position coach thinks any expert will tell you Claiborne has a better chance of being elite then barron. Barron went so early because it was a huge drop off after him.

 I'm not sure I agree completely with that being the reason Barron went so high. Is it a factor probably but not much. IMHO it's a win/win with Barron or Claiborne both graded/projected "elite" players at their postions.

dalbuc

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« #27 : April 27, 2012, 09:47:11 AM »

Chancellor was used as a nickel LB last year, so maybe they do that with Barron?

He played nickle LB at Bama so it might happen.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dalbuc

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« #28 : April 27, 2012, 09:51:01 AM »

In the right defense I would say safeties can be as important as CB's, especially the elite ones, not to compare to the Tampa 2 directly but one of the main aspects of that defense was taking the best players and putting them in the middle of the field, Barber, Brooks, etc.

Look even in PIT and BAL Polu and Reed aren't the core of that defense and they're really not even the second best guy on that defense. They are third (Ngata and Lews on BAL, Hampton and Harrison in PIT) so it is hard to revolve a defense around them. Formationally the NFL offenses can take safeties out and away pretty easily with split TE's or backs in the way they can't manipulate DL, CB or LB.

Plus, in the Tampa 2 the best players weren't in the middle our safeties were not the top ne dplayers on our roster. As much as I like Lynch he was a downhill box type safety not an elite coverage type guy.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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« #29 : April 27, 2012, 09:53:00 AM »

I like Barron well enough, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a "game-changer".  Polamalu, Reed, and Berry are the only "game-changing" Safety's in the league right now, and Barron's not on their level as a player.  Good, solid NFL player though.  But I still think picking him @ 7 was a reach.  Hope he turns into that game-changer over time.

 As a fan if we are sitting here debating whether or not a player the Bucs picked will be a solid NFL player or and "elite" NFL player, I think's that what's called a win/win especially after trading down.
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