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DailyRich68

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#30 : April 30, 2012, 09:17:14 PM

I love the pundits who criticize the move down and taking Barron but praise taking Martin and David.  The last two don't happen without the first one, geniuses.

tmac87

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#31 : April 30, 2012, 09:36:43 PM

He's a hater.

Lets f&#(!^ do this Lovie!

Dolorous Jason

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#32 : April 30, 2012, 10:08:38 PM

Of course, if Barron is a run stuffer you flank the TE out. You get him matched on an RB. You use formations to keep him away from the line or to suck him up to the line. Safeties are about the easiest thing to manipulate on the field.

TE's are a huge part of todays NFL...how does him covering a TE take him out of the play?  if he's matched up on a RB he is still right in the middle of the action.  every position can be manipulated, but a safety will always be more in the action than a cover corner imo.

Yep. Dalbuc is reaching on this one.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#33 : April 30, 2012, 10:26:57 PM

One thing is for certain:  QBs always look to see where a safety like Barron is lined up.  And they adjust accordingly (on pass plays, and even on run downs).  They can look them off easily, the good QBs do anyway...

Barron may be easily manipulated, but what he does manipulates the QBs decision making quickly as well.



dalbuc

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#34 : April 30, 2012, 10:38:21 PM

Of course, if Barron is a run stuffer you flank the TE out. You get him matched on an RB. You use formations to keep him away from the line or to suck him up to the line. Safeties are about the easiest thing to manipulate on the field.

TE's are a huge part of todays NFL...how does him covering a TE take him out of the play?  if he's matched up on a RB he is still right in the middle of the action.  every position can be manipulated, but a safety will always be more in the action than a cover corner imo.

No, because a TE and rB are much lower value players to be covering. essentially we have our pick #7 covering some other teams pick 144 and 214 for example. Plus, as an in the box guy he can be moved out of the box where his value drops dramatically.   Again, if the S is sooooooo flippin' central to every defense like you and the others are claiming why one god's green earth do they get paid so little? Oh right...you are wrong.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dalbuc

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#35 : April 30, 2012, 10:39:45 PM

One thing is for certain:  QBs always look to see where a safety like Barron is lined up.  And they adjust accordingly (on pass plays, and even on run downs).  They can look them off easily, the good QBs do anyway...

Barron may be easily manipulated, but what he does manipulates the QBs decision making quickly as well.

QB's always look to see where S's are lined up period. They are typically the key for an QB to start with. It doesn't matter who they are. It isn't like Freeman is sitting about going, Giosh, I don't even know the names of the CAR safeties so I guess I don't care where they lined up."  People try and make this so dramatic.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Boid Fink

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#36 : April 30, 2012, 10:44:10 PM

One thing is for certain:  QBs always look to see where a safety like Barron is lined up.  And they adjust accordingly (on pass plays, and even on run downs).  They can look them off easily, the good QBs do anyway...

Barron may be easily manipulated, but what he does manipulates the QBs decision making quickly as well.

QB's always look to see where S's are lined up period. They are typically the key for an QB to start with. It doesn't matter who they are. It isn't like Freeman is sitting about going, Giosh, I don't even know the names of the CAR safeties so I guess I don't care where they lined up."  People try and make this so dramatic.
Think I agreed with you there buddy.

They look to see the depth of the safeties, and they call out the mike.

Just standard procedure.

For good QBs anyway.


CalcuttaRain

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#37 : May 01, 2012, 12:21:32 AM


No, because a TE and rB are much lower value players to be covering. essentially we have our pick #7 covering some other teams pick 144 and 214 for example.

I had no idea that the game of football is won by having your lower picks cover their higher picks. LMAO.  Did you laugh to yourself when you typed that? A Safety is LESS VALUABLE than  a CB because a CB covers a higher pick? Yeesh . . .

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CalcuttaRain

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#38 : May 01, 2012, 12:22:17 AM

He's a hater.

Claiborne's agent is a source

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flaitguy

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#39 : May 01, 2012, 05:54:19 AM

If theNFL is a passing league like everyone loves to say now, why wouldn't you want a head hunter on those guys? Every receiver knows his head might get removed from his shoulders every time he is called for the ball. Besides, its sounds like teams knew all along about this guy, he only 'pieced up steam' when the media found out more about him.

GameTime

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#40 : May 01, 2012, 07:07:59 AM

No, because a TE and rB are much lower value players to be covering. essentially we have our pick #7 covering some other teams pick 144 and 214 for example. Plus, as an in the box guy he can be moved out of the box where his value drops dramatically.   Again, if the S is sooooooo flippin' central to every defense like you and the others are claiming why one god's green earth do they get paid so little? Oh right...you are wrong.

so when we play the superbowl against the pat we essentially have our pick #5 CB covering tiquan underwood?  or our pick #7 barron possibly covering hernandez/gronk?  oh right...every situation is different.  the argument can be made either way, as i believe ive been stating for some time.   schiano said a safety is more integral to his team than a cover corner.    im gonna go with that one for a while.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Dolorous Jason

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#41 : May 01, 2012, 07:38:26 AM



No, because a TE and rB are much lower value players to be covering.

I wish someone would get that memo to the Saints who toast us every game with Sproles and Jimmy Graham...

Teams play a lot of zone also , so it's not like all they do is cover TE's. You need a safety who's able to pick up those star recievers once they get deep,  and not get easily looked off by a QB.
( and once again , this is not even factoring in how much more important safeties are against the run )

 We probably couldn't have won that superbowl without an ALL-pro safety like John Lynch ( and Dexter Jackson was MVP, BTW, another safety ) , but let's face it ,  our coverage corners were below average in man coverage .  Dwight SMith and Brian Kelly bombed when they left Tampa. They were all zone system corners all drafted in the middle rounds. Guess what ? It didn't matter .

Give me the superstar safety anyday who can help in all facets of the defense and all over the field.
: May 01, 2012, 07:43:13 AM Fire Mark Dummynik

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threadkiller

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#42 : May 01, 2012, 08:12:55 AM

He's entitled to his opinion on Claiborne, Barron, and our trade.  To spend the ENTIRE paragraph harping on it and not mention any of the other 6 picks or his thoughts on them is amateur hour.  In fact, he manages to write up every team and grade them with hardly giving one opinion of his own on a prospect.  Reeks of a "journalist" who has done NO homework of his own on the subject.   Some people here complain about posters watching 20-30 minutes of youtube video on guys and developing an opinion of them as players.  I would say there are lots of posters here who have a significantly better grasp of the players in this draft then Jason Cole. 

dalbuc

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#43 : May 01, 2012, 08:20:08 AM

I wish someone would get that memo to the Saints who toast us every game with Sproles and Jimmy Graham...

Teams play a lot of zone also , so it's not like all they do is cover TE's. You need a safety who's able to pick up those star recievers once they get deep,  and not get easily looked off by a QB.
( and once again , this is not even factoring in how much more important safeties are against the run )

 We probably couldn't have won that superbowl without an ALL-pro safety like John Lynch ( and Dexter Jackson was MVP, BTW, another safety ) , but let's face it ,  our coverage corners were below average in man coverage .  Dwight SMith and Brian Kelly bombed when they left Tampa. They were all zone system corners all drafted in the middle rounds. Guess what ? It didn't matter .

Give me the superstar safety anyday who can help in all facets of the defense and all over the field.

Most of your argument depends on you believing, which you do, that he can actually cover Sproles/Graham and whatever star WR runs into his zone. I don't think he can. Despite the Grahams and Gronks of the world most teams still have their premier players on the edge. Even in our division you still have Colston, White and Smith on the outside who cause us issues while Graham is really the only TE who is a "problem" for us - or will be in any near future since Gonzo is about to go.

You clearly don't need great CB's in a cover 2 scheme but the safeties are non-issues as well. Lynch was an in box cover in front of him guy. I think Barron is Lynch. I also think people here overrated what he was because Lynch was not a coverage guy. The rest of our S's also flamed out anywhere they went.. In the end the CB allows much more flexibility because if you get an eraser then you have that part of the field eliminated and you can roll coverage to your lesser guys or play more guys up because you don't always need a S behind the CB.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Feel Real Good

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#44 : May 01, 2012, 08:43:41 AM

You clearly don't need great CB's in a cover 2 scheme but the safeties are non-issues as well. Lynch was an in box cover in front of him guy. I think Barron is Lynch. I also think people here overrated what he was because Lynch was not a coverage guy. The rest of our S's also flamed out anywhere they went.. In the end the CB allows much more flexibility because if you get an eraser then you have that part of the field eliminated and you can roll coverage to your lesser guys or play more guys up because you don't always need a S behind the CB.
Lynch wasn't a pure cover guy but he was a guy who always knew where to be and simply being where he needed to be was often enough to make the QB throw the ball somewhere else. You don't have to be an elite cover guy to play pass defense. If you're a safety, usually just being in the way is enough.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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