Holder and Joe in a little dustup

[michael89156]

Source:    Twitter


Stephen Holder‏@HolderStephen     6 min ago

@joebucsfan Made the mistake of reading your useless website today. Thought everyone knew I based my whole 15 yr career on "assumptions"



Stephen Holder‏@HolderStephen    4 min ago

@joebucsfan why don't you tell your readers how the paper you DON'T criticize is the one you quietly draw a check from.


Stephen Holder‏@HolderStephen  4 min ago

@joebucsfan Oh, and you're a hack. That is all.

[Morgan]

Reckless Assumptions Of Schiano’s “Autonomy”
May 27th, 2012

    “Look Rockstar, don’t you read the newspaper? The Times says I’m in charge, one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL. So go fetch me some suncreen and get my draft picks signed.”

Regular readers of JoeBucsFan.com know Joe often will confront the comments of his colleagues and respectfully, and sometimes not so respectfully, disagree.

This is one of those times.

Joe knows his mature colleagues can take it and hold no grudges. And Joe always welcomes his media brethren to blast his opinions. It’s all in the name of good service to the fans.

This brings Joe to the wild take from Stephen Holder of the Tampa Bay Times in today’s edition. Holder tells readers to be sure that Greg Schiano is one of the most powerful coaches in the NFL.

    We must assume Schiano’s apparent autonomy was granted by the Glazers when the owners hired him. It also changes significantly the role of GM Mark Dominik, who often had the final say on matters with fired coach Raheem Morris. Now his role seems more of an executor than a decision-maker.

    Again, not good or bad, just different.

    The Bucs’ model is not typical. Even coaches with the stature of the Giants’ Tom Coughlin, the Packers’ Mike McCarthy and the Chargers’ Norv Turner share the decision-making with general managers.

You can click through above to read Holder’s thin thesis. Frankly, Joe sees no evidence that rockstar general manager Mark Dominik has been iced out of the decision-making process as Holder says we must assume has happened.

Schiano is a more powerful organizational voice than McCarthy, Turner or Coughlin? Sorry, Joe can’t believe Team Glazer would be so reckless to grant Schiano autonomy given his lack of experience at the professional level. That would have been completely foolish.

Certainly Schiano is a powerful voice at One Buc Palace, along with Dominik, Team Glazer and Butch Davis, in his somewhat mysterious role. Joe knows Schiano needs a level of authority to enforce the New Schiano Order, but Joe believes Holder took his assumption in this case way too far.

http://www.joebucsfan.com/

[The Anti-Java]

Is that what started it Morgan?

I never go to that site, it's lame.  Its been over a year since I visited.

[CyberDilemma]

Stephen Holder = credible, unbiased reporter. JoeBucsFan = well, you know.

[tatmanfish]

well, to be completely fair, they both suck.

 Holder garners more respect though because hes an actual journalist that writes stories no matter how dumb his opinion is. Joe(none of them) can do that. they can only use other peoples work to inject some sort of drama fueled 3rd person nonsense in hope it gets some hits due to the sheer stupidity of their remarks. They are fully dependent on these journalist they "respectfully" (yeah right, when?) poach info from and then bash.

Holder is 100% that Joe(all of them) is nothing more than a hack. If Joe wasnt a hack, then lets see all of his articles done with actual research and not some ripoff of some other writer. I doubt they break double digits between all the writers.

[Hate]

Seems Holder took a lil offense to Joe's article

[Morgan]

Blogger vs Journalist.

Blogger doesn't have to worry about his credibilty, journalist does.

I'm surprised Holder would even tweet about JBF -

[The Anti-Java]

Cage match would be awesome, Holder would kick his [their] ass.

[caradoc]

For some reason the JBF guys have their tongues as deep up Dom's butt as is physically possible.  It seems they can't even type his name without prefacing it with "rock star general manager".

That whole "conversation" was hack on hack crime.  That is all.

[Isbitts]

@Morgan

Have to speak up on this one. This is "Joe"

Look, JoeBucsFan has just the same amount of credibility concerns as any other entity, perhaps more. Holder only works for the Times. The writers of JoeBucsFan.com own the profitable site and are  subject to the same libel concerns as any other media outlet. Also, JoeBucsFan.com is credentialed by the Bucs and routinely is credentialed by the NFL on request.

Frankly, we have way more to lose than one reporter at a newspaper.

Secondly, there's plenty of original content and opinion on JoeBucsFan.com. The archives serve as proof. The traffic wouldn't be what it was if JoeBucsFan was nothing but links and edgy opinion.

[Hate]

Well, there you have it.

[The Anti-Java]

@Morgan

Have to speak up on this one. This is "Joe"

Look, JoeBucsFan has just the same amount of credibility concerns as any other entity, perhaps more. Holder only works for the Times. The writers of JoeBucsFan.com own the profitable site and are  subject to the same libel concerns as any other media outlet. Also, JoeBucsFan.com is credentialed by the Bucs and routinely is credentialed by the NFL on request.

Frankly, we have way more to lose than one reporter at a newspaper.

Secondly, there's plenty of original content and opinion on JoeBucsFan.com. The archives serve as proof. The traffic wouldn't be what it was if JoeBucsFan was nothing but links and edgy opinion.

Dropping the 3rd person crap would do wonders for traffic IMO.

[Morgan]

@Morgan

Have to speak up on this one. This is "Joe"

Look, JoeBucsFan has just the same amount of credibility concerns as any other entity, perhaps more. Holder only works for the Times. The writers of JoeBucsFan.com own the profitable site and are  subject to the same libel concerns as any other media outlet. Also, JoeBucsFan.com is credentialed by the Bucs and routinely is credentialed by the NFL on request.

Frankly, we have way more to lose than one reporter at a newspaper.

Secondly, there's plenty of original content and opinion on JoeBucsFan.com. The archives serve as proof. The traffic wouldn't be what it was if JoeBucsFan was nothing but links and edgy opinion.

Thanks for speaking up - I know that you monitor PR mbs. DIdn't realize the credentialing and accuracy challenges that your site faces. I always considered bloggers in general to be the equivalent of opinionated columnist or radio talk show hosts like Big Dog - that's why the comment blogger vs journalist.    PS: visit your site several times throughout the day. Glad you're in business.

[Isbitts]

The third-person stuff is not for everyone, but that's ok. We encourage everyone that can't stand the site to never visit.

[The Anti-Java]

The third-person stuff is not for everyone, but that's ok. We encourage everyone that can't stand the site to never visit.

Great business model.