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ryan24

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#75 : May 31, 2012, 11:24:08 PM


As a distance runner and one who knows a ton about heat acclimation, you could not be farther from the truth. There may be a point in which maybe taking a day away from the heat here or there could help regenerate a bit but the thought that you can practice out of the heat and then perform optimally in hot/humid conditions is simply not correct.

You are wrong. Heat acclimation is bogus well mostly bogus.  The only gain you get is plasma volume (what helps you cool) and there are upper limits on this. Assuming you are in good shape, and football players are in great shape, they can't jack their plasma limit much higher. Plus, the only benefit to heat comes in shorter doses - 1 hour seems to be the practical upper limit - than the 2 a days or all day outside workouts.  Toss in a short time frame that you can gain an "edge". Working out all August doesn't confer any edge on gameday in football because you lose the build up of plasma quickly. If they went out in the afternoons and did a 1 hour workout they'd be doing something that scientifically might help them but all day outside isn't doing anything but fatiguing them past reasonable limits.

Heat acclimation is not bogus. That's just assinine. There may be a point in which you can no longer acclimate any further but that wasn't really what I was responding to. My message states what I was responding to.

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The Anti-Java

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#76 : June 01, 2012, 12:38:41 AM


As a distance runner and one who knows a ton about heat acclimation, you could not be farther from the truth. There may be a point in which maybe taking a day away from the heat here or there could help regenerate a bit but the thought that you can practice out of the heat and then perform optimally in hot/humid conditions is simply not correct.

You are wrong. Heat acclimation is bogus well mostly bogus.  The only gain you get is plasma volume (what helps you cool) and there are upper limits on this. Assuming you are in good shape, and football players are in great shape, they can't jack their plasma limit much higher. Plus, the only benefit to heat comes in shorter doses - 1 hour seems to be the practical upper limit - than the 2 a days or all day outside workouts.  Toss in a short time frame that you can gain an "edge". Working out all August doesn't confer any edge on gameday in football because you lose the build up of plasma quickly. If they went out in the afternoons and did a 1 hour workout they'd be doing something that scientifically might help them but all day outside isn't doing anything but fatiguing them past reasonable limits.

Heat acclimation is not bogus. That's just assinine. There may be a point in which you can no longer acclimate any further but that wasn't really what I was responding to. My message states what I was responding to.



And I believe the guys get acclimated just living in the area.    IMO


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#77 : June 01, 2012, 12:42:19 AM


As a distance runner and one who knows a ton about heat acclimation, you could not be farther from the truth. There may be a point in which maybe taking a day away from the heat here or there could help regenerate a bit but the thought that you can practice out of the heat and then perform optimally in hot/humid conditions is simply not correct.

You are wrong. Heat acclimation is bogus well mostly bogus.  The only gain you get is plasma volume (what helps you cool) and there are upper limits on this. Assuming you are in good shape, and football players are in great shape, they can't jack their plasma limit much higher. Plus, the only benefit to heat comes in shorter doses - 1 hour seems to be the practical upper limit - than the 2 a days or all day outside workouts.  Toss in a short time frame that you can gain an "edge". Working out all August doesn't confer any edge on gameday in football because you lose the build up of plasma quickly. If they went out in the afternoons and did a 1 hour workout they'd be doing something that scientifically might help them but all day outside isn't doing anything but fatiguing them past reasonable limits.

100% spot on...  Physiologically speaking. 

But dal - to deny the impact it has on a player to perform MENTALLY would be to ignore what I think is actually the most important component of the whole "heat advantage" discussion.

This is NOT a he-man, chest-thumping statement, but...   Unless you've been though a summer of football training, getting gassed adnauseum, and then having bigger, badder dudes leave you blowing snot bubbles - only to play an entire season after that.......  You simply cannot relate.

I believe you're pretty much right, for the most part, on the lack of difference HEAT has on all athletes (although I know guys who handle it like a boss - and "bad asses" who wilt like a daisy in it), I think the difference it has on the mind of those who are not strong "upstairs" is where it translates to their play.

It matters.  Maybe only a minute percentage.  But it's a detail.

At this point, I'd actually be disappointed if it were overlooked.


JDouble

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#78 : June 01, 2012, 07:21:51 AM

Look at the number of Super Bowls Florida teams have won. Look at the overall win/loss record of the three Florida teams. The heat is obviously a factor and nobody has seemed to figure out how to deal with it yet.

I think Arizona figured it out. Build a retractable dome with a real grass field. Make the weather a non factor.


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#79 : June 01, 2012, 09:18:15 AM

Look at the number of Super Bowls Florida teams have won. Look at the overall win/loss record of the three Florida teams. The heat is obviously a factor and nobody has seemed to figure out how to deal with it yet.

I think Arizona figured it out. Build a retractable dome with a real grass field. Make the weather a non factor.

i think a bigger reason the number of SB's Florida teams have won is because they are relatively newer to the league.  as for arizona, aside from kurt warner, theyve been pretty subpar in their new stadium.  not sure the stadium helps.

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#80 : June 01, 2012, 09:39:56 AM

Dolphins have been part of the NFL for 42 years. Two SB rings. 400 - 300 - 4

Buccaneers have been part of the NFL for 36 years. One SB ring. 228 - 350 - 1

Jaguars have been part of the NFL for 17 years. No rings.  138 - 131

Combined 95 years for the three Florida teams and only 3 rings....and the two Dolphin SBs were 40 years ago. Combined regular season record of 766 - 781 - 5. Combined post season record of 31 - 35. Could just be coincidence or some other reason, but it sure doesn't seem like Florida teams do well. Perhaps one of them should at least try getting a dome and taking the heat out of the equation.


GameTime

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#81 : June 01, 2012, 10:06:01 AM

the Seahawks entered the NFL with the Bucs.  they have no superbowl rings and overall record of 269-295.

the Panthers entered with the Jags.  they have no superbowl rings and record of 125-147.

as for the Fins, the only teams that entered with them that have surpassed them are the pats and raiders with 3 SB's.  the broncos are even with 2.

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#82 : June 01, 2012, 10:14:44 AM

To much discussion about the physical impact of heat when it is the mental impact that provides a potential advantage.

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#83 : June 01, 2012, 11:17:19 AM


100% spot on...  Physiologically speaking. 

But dal - to deny the impact it has on a player to perform MENTALLY would be to ignore what I think is actually the most important component of the whole "heat advantage" discussion.

I would assume that mentally is where you think you can get an edge but of course in our division CAR, ATL and NO are all hot places. Players on teams come from all over the south and southwest or southern California. There aren't many of them who get wigged out by the heat because they are mentally used to it. The most important aspect of heat is to have a proper heat proticol from your trainers - and that is mostly about hydration.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

ryan24

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#84 : June 01, 2012, 11:25:00 AM

Dolphins have been part of the NFL for 42 years. Two SB rings. 400 - 300 - 4

Buccaneers have been part of the NFL for 36 years. One SB ring. 228 - 350 - 1

Jaguars have been part of the NFL for 17 years. No rings.  138 - 131

Combined 95 years for the three Florida teams and only 3 rings....and the two Dolphin SBs were 40 years ago. Combined regular season record of 766 - 781 - 5. Combined post season record of 31 - 35. Could just be coincidence or some other reason, but it sure doesn't seem like Florida teams do well. Perhaps one of them should at least try getting a dome and taking the heat out of the equation.

Or perhaps better players. If anything, having to go north for the playoffs has a bigger impact weather wise.

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Booker Reese

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#85 : June 01, 2012, 12:26:45 PM

JD, with all due respect, that's just nonsense.

"Could just be coincidence or some other reason" - are you kidding me? How about reasons like the teams were run by bumbling idiots for most of their history. Funny, but the heat didn't seem to bother the Dolphins in '72 and '73. It didn't Dallas for any of their 4 SBs.

Arizona didn't "figure" anything out besides the notion that fans didn't like sitting in an ultra-hot stadium.

There is very little doubt that training in the heat lets players get acclimated to the heat and that acclimation has advantages over those that aren't acclimated. I provided links earlier in this thread to various reports based on studies that talk about these advantages. You can find a bunch just by googling heat acclimation and training. And no, Anti-Java - you get acclimated by training in it, not living in it. http://www.irunfar.com/2010/04/heat-acclimation-for-runners.html. Acclimation doesn't mean "Junction Boys" practices either.

However - I think Dalbuc makes a great point out that a) we are talking about premier athletes where the marginal difference is probably pretty small; and b) a lot of other teams train in the heat - Carolina, New Orleans, and Atlanta are all hot, humid places (and that's just in our division). August is a pretty hot month everywhere.

One thing that this article points out that "acclimation" goes away after a few weeks. That's one reason I suspect that hot games in October, not September are probably where the advantages for an acclimated team are largest.

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#86 : June 01, 2012, 02:02:05 PM

All I'm saying is it would be interesting to see the results if one of the Florida teams had a dome. Seems like all three tend to fade late in the season.


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#87 : June 01, 2012, 03:11:17 PM

All I'm saying is it would be interesting to see the results if one of the Florida teams had a dome. Seems like all three tend to fade late in the season.
The Saints lost a lot of games in their dome before getting a winning team.  Not sure it's about a dome.

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#88 : June 01, 2012, 03:46:41 PM

To much discussion about the physical impact of heat when it is the mental impact that provides a potential advantage.

Exactly right . Heat affects all our bodies physically the same way , it's how you deal with it mentally that matters.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           
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