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CBWx2

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#45 : June 04, 2012, 11:28:37 PM

The fact is that the vetting of voter registration forms and the Help America Vote Act of 2002 actually make it virtually  impossible to actually cast a  fraudulent vote in this country. Registration fraud is inconsequential unless fraudulent names actually wind up on voting rolls, and that is inconsequential because first time voters are already required to provide picture ID under the HAV act of 2002. The reason no proof of voter fraud can be provided is quite simple. There isn't any.


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#46 : June 04, 2012, 11:28:57 PM

Durango - we have all seen one organization go to very great lengths to 'organize' and 'get out the vote' in the last Presidential election.  They got caught - one wonders how many illegal or improper votes took place - the DOJ did not investigate. So perhaps a better process is in order. One that at least takes some thought to get around would be a nice starting point.

Okay. I always have an open mind to that.

I don't see a need for Voter ID and haven't seen anything to show it would help whatever ailment supposedly exists.

I can appreciate your desire to seek ways to enhance the integrity of the system but I have not seen anything to indicate that Voter ID will do that.

This is a Republican ruse to eliminate Democrats from the rolls.

It's also more government involvement.

As such it is a bad idea.
: June 04, 2012, 11:35:16 PM Durango 95

VinBucFan

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#47 : June 04, 2012, 11:55:55 PM


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

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#48 : June 05, 2012, 12:09:47 AM


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

Lol

Poor Vinnie got his drama schtick trashed tonight and now he's just hanging around licking up his own slop.

CBWx2

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#49 : June 05, 2012, 12:14:30 AM


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

You knew that is what I would say because you know that it is the one thing that weakens your position. The only way that registration fraud can become insidious is if by some stroke of luck, they make it onto the rolls, in which case, there is already a picture ID requirement for a first time voter, which no doubt, a fake name would be flagged as.

That is why voter registration fraud and voter fraud are not the same. Registration forms are not verified upon signing, they are verified once submitted. I could fill out a form as Bugs Bunny tomorrow, and there would be essentially zero chance that I would actually be able to cast a vote in November as Bugs Bunny. What you call splitting hairs a rational and logical person would call "reality".

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

LOL, HIS partisanship? Are you so delusional that you actually see yourself as non-partisan?


VinBucFan

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#50 : June 05, 2012, 12:47:45 AM

I am actually not very partisan. I am a fiscal conservative but moderate to liberal on social issues.  In this crazy little cove I have spoken out about racism (and your hyperactive reaction to racism) about gay rights and also conservative financial issues.  Funny thing is you, and I guess Durango, are clearly very liberal but you kind of run from it

VinBucFan

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#51 : June 05, 2012, 12:50:46 AM


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

Lol

Poor Vinnie got his drama schtick trashed tonight and now he's just hanging around licking up his own slop.

thats just weird.  The thing you two have in common though.  Weird that you guys both try to avoid even modest little issues.  Admitting a contradiction in a position or admitting an honest mistake does not make you weak, it actually gives you more credibility.  Thought you intellectuals would understand that. Well, check that. I know CBW does not understand that

CBWx2

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#52 : June 05, 2012, 01:29:48 AM

I am actually not very partisan. I am a fiscal conservative but moderate to liberal on social issues.  In this crazy little cove I have spoken out about racism (and your hyperactive reaction to racism) about gay rights and also conservative financial issues.  Funny thing is you, and I guess Durango, are clearly very liberal but you kind of run from it

I run from being very liberal? Uh, not so much. I have never even once classified myself as anything but. I can't speak for Durango, but I will say that given that he and I have butted heads on political issues, IMO, he's far less partisan than many on this MB, yourself and yours truly included.


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

Lol

Poor Vinnie got his drama schtick trashed tonight and now he's just hanging around licking up his own slop.

thats just weird.  The thing you two have in common though.  Weird that you guys both try to avoid even modest little issues.  Admitting a contradiction in a position or admitting an honest mistake does not make you weak, it actually gives you more credibility.  Thought you intellectuals would understand that. Well, check that. I know CBW does not understand that

What's weird, yet completely expected, is that once again, you are quick to accuse others of things that you are guilty of yourself. Your self righteousness would leave a casual observer to believe that you are one who stands above the fray, yet here we are, in yet another fray with you at the center of it.

You avoid direct questions, don't own up to your own contradictions, and resort to ad hominem attacks more than anyone else that comes to mind at the moment on this MB, so you have to excuse us if we don't take you seriously when you call us out for crap that you yourself are guilty of daily. Hypocrites tend not to be taken seriously.
: June 05, 2012, 01:36:24 AM CBWx2


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#53 : June 05, 2012, 01:37:30 AM

I am actually not very partisan. I am a fiscal conservative but moderate to liberal on social issues.  In this crazy little cove I have spoken out about racism (and your hyperactive reaction to racism) about gay rights and also conservative financial issues.  Funny thing is you, and I guess Durango, are clearly very liberal but you kind of run from it

I run from being very liberal? Uh, not so much. I have never even once classified myself as anything but. I can't speak for Durango, but I will say that given that he and I have butted heads on political issues, IMO, he's far less partisan than many on this MB, yourself and yours truly included.


Be honest, the reason you preemptively pointed that out is because you are fully aware that registering to vote is not voting, .

actually, no.  I posted that because I knew thsat is what you would say.  Your response is always to split hairs in a backpedal. 

What's more surprising is the impact you have had on Durango who actually pretended to be you tonight resorting to your little games just to avoid answering a very simple question.  Guessing he did not like that my simple questions exposed his partisanship.

Lol

Poor Vinnie got his drama schtick trashed tonight and now he's just hanging around licking up his own slop.

thats just weird.  The thing you two have in common though.  Weird that you guys both try to avoid even modest little issues.  Admitting a contradiction in a position or admitting an honest mistake does not make you weak, it actually gives you more credibility.  Thought you intellectuals would understand that. Well, check that. I know CBW does not understand that

What's weird, yet completely expected, is that once again, you are quick to accuse others of things that you are guilty of yourself. Your self righteousness would leave a casual observer to believe that you are one who stands above the fray, yet here we are, in yet another fray with you at the center of it.

You avoid direct questions, don't own up to your own contradictions, and resort to ad hominem attacks more than anyone else that comes to mind at the moment on this MB, so you have to excuse us if we don't take you seriously when you call us out for crap that you yourself are guilty of daily. Hypocrites tend not to be taken seriously.

 ;D

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#54 : June 05, 2012, 07:30:59 AM

Durango - we have all seen one organization go to very great lengths to 'organize' and 'get out the vote' in the last Presidential election.  They got caught - one wonders how many illegal or improper votes took place - the DOJ did not investigate. So perhaps a better process is in order. One that at least takes some thought to get around would be a nice starting point.

Okay. I always have an open mind to that.

I don't see a need for Voter ID and haven't seen anything to show it would help whatever ailment supposedly exists.

I can appreciate your desire to seek ways to enhance the integrity of the system but I have not seen anything to indicate that Voter ID will do that.

This is a Republican ruse to eliminate Democrats from the rolls.

It's also more government involvement.

As such it is a bad idea.
That is the better idea.  And no it is not more government - it is a perhaps a more useful government involvement.  It might be as simple as a verifiable photo id, it might be a voter id card with a picture.  In any respect is it not unattainable to the masses and no more scientific or costly than the driver's license.

As to getting Democrats eliminated - folks of any affiliation will either belong on the voter rolls or they won't.  If that is the issue you distain - well you shouldn't be happy with any conversation that includes assuring the folks who vote meet voting requirements. 
: June 05, 2012, 07:33:04 AM dbucfan

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Chief Joseph

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#55 : June 05, 2012, 08:55:04 AM


I've yet to see a single piece of evidence demonstrating it is more difficult for one group to obtain an I.D. than it is for another. Without such evidence, there is no discriminatory practice.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Biggs3535

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#56 : June 05, 2012, 09:48:32 AM

The fact is that the vetting of voter registration forms and the Help America Vote Act of 2002 actually make it virtually  impossible to actually cast a  fraudulent vote in this country. Registration fraud is inconsequential unless fraudulent names actually wind up on voting rolls, and that is inconsequential because first time voters are already required to provide picture ID under the HAV act of 2002. The reason no proof of voter fraud can be provided is quite simple. There isn't any.

Is that right?




It appears to be pretty easy to vote fraudulently if one wanted to.




CBWx2

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#57 : June 05, 2012, 11:00:11 AM


I've yet to see a single piece of evidence demonstrating it is more difficult for one group to obtain an I.D. than it is for another. Without such evidence, there is no discriminatory practice.

Let me help you out with that then:

Quote
[W]e conclude that the total number of registered voters who lack a driver's license or personal identification card issued by DPS could range from 603,892 to 795,955. The disparity between the percentages of Hispanics and non-Hispanics who lack these forms of identification ranges from 46.5 to 120.0 percent. That is, according to the state's own data, a Hispanic registered voter is at least 46.5 percent, and potentially 120.0 percent, more likely than a non-Hispanic registered voter to lack this identification. Even using the data most favorable to the state, Hispanics disproportionately lack either a driver's license or a personal identification card issued by DPS, and that disparity is statistically significant.

Texas has no driver's license offices in almost a third of the state's counties. Meanwhile, close to 15 percent of Hispanic Texans living in counties without driver's license offices don't have ID. A little less than a quarter of driver's license offices have extended hours, which would make it tough for many working voters to find a place and time to acquire the IDs. Despite this, the Texas legislature struck an amendment that would have reimbursed low-income voters for travel expenses when going to apply for a voter ID, and killed another that would have required offices to remain open until 7:00 p.m. or later on just one weekday, and four or more hours at least two weekends.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/


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#58 : June 05, 2012, 11:04:02 AM


I've yet to see a single piece of evidence demonstrating it is more difficult for one group to obtain an I.D. than it is for another. Without such evidence, there is no discriminatory practice.

Let me help you out with that then:

Quote
[W]e conclude that the total number of registered voters who lack a driver's license or personal identification card issued by DPS could range from 603,892 to 795,955. The disparity between the percentages of Hispanics and non-Hispanics who lack these forms of identification ranges from 46.5 to 120.0 percent. That is, according to the state's own data, a Hispanic registered voter is at least 46.5 percent, and potentially 120.0 percent, more likely than a non-Hispanic registered voter to lack this identification. Even using the data most favorable to the state, Hispanics disproportionately lack either a driver's license or a personal identification card issued by DPS, and that disparity is statistically significant.

Texas has no driver's license offices in almost a third of the state's counties. Meanwhile, close to 15 percent of Hispanic Texans living in counties without driver's license offices don't have ID. A little less than a quarter of driver's license offices have extended hours, which would make it tough for many working voters to find a place and time to acquire the IDs. Despite this, the Texas legislature struck an amendment that would have reimbursed low-income voters for travel expenses when going to apply for a voter ID, and killed another that would have required offices to remain open until 7:00 p.m. or later on just one weekday, and four or more hours at least two weekends.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/

Its always a solid practice to look for "truth" in advocacy pieces . . ."how voter id laws ARE being used to disenfranchise minorities and the poor" 

New version of the bubble boy


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#59 : June 05, 2012, 11:09:21 AM


Bout time we got to the point. Now perhaps you can explain how the non-hispanics in those counties seem to be managing just fine under the same conditions?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.
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