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Tampa-Two

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#15 : June 05, 2012, 01:55:42 PM

In the day of the combine being broadcast like it's and end all to talent evaluation we severely overhype big and strong players and leave smart, instinctual players like Cody Grimm and Ahmad Black to the late rounds or undrafted. There is a reason Tom Brady went in the 6th round and Peyton Manning and Mike Vick in the first round. Look at the pictures of them!

The idea has shifted to take athletes and teach them how to play football. I say the opposite. Take football players and help them be better athletes. I think Ahmad will do well this year.
It's not the athleticism, or lack there of, that I am worried about. It's the size.

And not just the weight but the height. Bob Sanders could play safety in the NFL but he was 20 lbs heavier and much faster. If Black gained 20 lbs I doubt he would be fast enough for even special teams.
I seriously doubt weight has anything to do with coverage ability. But that's just me.
If you want to play safety in the NFL you need to do more than just cover. But that's just the NFL.


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#16 : June 05, 2012, 01:57:08 PM

In the day of the combine being broadcast like it's and end all to talent evaluation we severely overhype big and strong players and leave smart, instinctual players like Cody Grimm and Ahmad Black to the late rounds or undrafted. There is a reason Tom Brady went in the 6th round and Peyton Manning and Mike Vick in the first round. Look at the pictures of them!

The idea has shifted to take athletes and teach them how to play football. I say the opposite. Take football players and help them be better athletes. I think Ahmad will do well this year.
It's not the athleticism, or lack there of, that I am worried about. It's the size.

And not just the weight but the height. Bob Sanders could play safety in the NFL but he was 20 lbs heavier and much faster. If Black gained 20 lbs I doubt he would be fast enough for even special teams.
I seriously doubt weight has anything to do with coverage ability. But that's just me.
Lack of weight does have an impact on tackling ability. And we haven't even addressed his lack of speed, either.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Detrimental

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#17 : June 05, 2012, 02:04:54 PM

In the day of the combine being broadcast like it's and end all to talent evaluation we severely overhype big and strong players and leave smart, instinctual players like Cody Grimm and Ahmad Black to the late rounds or undrafted. There is a reason Tom Brady went in the 6th round and Peyton Manning and Mike Vick in the first round. Look at the pictures of them!

The idea has shifted to take athletes and teach them how to play football. I say the opposite. Take football players and help them be better athletes. I think Ahmad will do well this year.
It's not the athleticism, or lack there of, that I am worried about. It's the size.

And not just the weight but the height. Bob Sanders could play safety in the NFL but he was 20 lbs heavier and much faster. If Black gained 20 lbs I doubt he would be fast enough for even special teams.
I seriously doubt weight has anything to do with coverage ability. But that's just me.
If you want to play safety in the NFL you need to do more than just cover. But that's just the NFL.
Free safeties in the NFL, their mainly responsible for coverage. Which doesn't require much physicality at the position. But that's just my domain knowledge of the NFL. Size only matters for SS's. Keep up please

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#18 : June 05, 2012, 02:08:27 PM

In the day of the combine being broadcast like it's and end all to talent evaluation we severely overhype big and strong players and leave smart, instinctual players like Cody Grimm and Ahmad Black to the late rounds or undrafted. There is a reason Tom Brady went in the 6th round and Peyton Manning and Mike Vick in the first round. Look at the pictures of them!

The idea has shifted to take athletes and teach them how to play football. I say the opposite. Take football players and help them be better athletes. I think Ahmad will do well this year.
It's not the athleticism, or lack there of, that I am worried about. It's the size.

And not just the weight but the height. Bob Sanders could play safety in the NFL but he was 20 lbs heavier and much faster. If Black gained 20 lbs I doubt he would be fast enough for even special teams.
I seriously doubt weight has anything to do with coverage ability. But that's just me.
Lack of weight does have an impact on tackling ability. And we haven't even addressed his lack of speed, either.
Not really. Black has always been a technique tackler so weight won't be an issue. Look at Barber and every other undersized DB in the NFL(Winfield, Vasher, Bethea)

Black is faster on the field than he is on shorts. He is a quick twitch safety. He isn't a straight line speed guy but he flies all over the field. A non-issue.

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#19 : June 05, 2012, 02:11:59 PM

In the day of the combine being broadcast like it's and end all to talent evaluation we severely overhype big and strong players and leave smart, instinctual players like Cody Grimm and Ahmad Black to the late rounds or undrafted. There is a reason Tom Brady went in the 6th round and Peyton Manning and Mike Vick in the first round. Look at the pictures of them!

The idea has shifted to take athletes and teach them how to play football. I say the opposite. Take football players and help them be better athletes. I think Ahmad will do well this year.
It's not the athleticism, or lack there of, that I am worried about. It's the size.

And not just the weight but the height. Bob Sanders could play safety in the NFL but he was 20 lbs heavier and much faster. If Black gained 20 lbs I doubt he would be fast enough for even special teams.
I seriously doubt weight has anything to do with coverage ability. But that's just me.
If you want to play safety in the NFL you need to do more than just cover. But that's just the NFL.
Free safeties in the NFL, their mainly responsible for coverage. Which doesn't require much physicality at the position. But that's just my domain knowledge of the NFL. Size only matters for SS's. Keep up please
Earl Thomas is one of the new breed free safeties in the NFL who specialize on coverage. He is 18 lbs heavier than Black. Im not hating on Black. I like the guy, but he does not have NFL safety size.


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#20 : June 05, 2012, 02:14:06 PM

A lot of players fly all over the field in college. And then when they get to the NFL, the ones who flay all over the field while being big, strong, and fast rise to the top.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#21 : June 05, 2012, 03:54:41 PM

Ahmad Black is the same height and 5 lbs heavier than Ronde Barber. The idea that he is too small to be a great DB is ridiculous.


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#22 : June 05, 2012, 03:58:39 PM

Let's re-sign Elbert Mack, then!

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

JDouble

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#23 : June 05, 2012, 04:01:30 PM

Elbert Mack was listed at 170lbs.....Black is 190lbs....same height.


GameTime

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#24 : June 05, 2012, 04:02:31 PM

Ahmad Black is the same height and 5 lbs heavier than Ronde Barber. The idea that he is too small to be a great DB is ridiculous.

i think its not that he cant, just that the odds are stacked against guys with his size and speed.  same with cody grimm.  they are both true football players, but they will both have a tough road ahead to have a great career.  grimm has already shown that you can do everything the right way and still fall behind.

and i think most would say ronde is the exception, rather than the rule.  i believe he had some pretty "nervous" statements about moving to S with his size, and most consider him a fairly physical player.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#25 : June 05, 2012, 04:05:55 PM

Ahmad Black is the same height and 5 lbs heavier than Ronde Barber. The idea that he is too small to be a great DB is ridiculous.
I'd turn that around. Just because Ronde beat the odds does not mean Ahmad Black can do it. Ronde Barber is Ronde Barber after all.

Edit: shoot. didn't see your post GameTime..


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#26 : June 05, 2012, 04:05:56 PM

i think its not that he cant, just that the odds are stacked against guys with his size and speed.  same with cody grimm.  they are both true football players, but they will both have a tough road ahead to have a great career.  grimm has already shown that you can do everything the right way and still fall behind.
Grimm ran a 4.55 at over 200 lbs compared to Black 4.7 at 185. He has every bit the physical measurables you want.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

JDouble

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#27 : June 05, 2012, 04:07:15 PM

Ronde has been playing a linebacker/safety type role for a few years now. If he has concerns about playing safety, it's probably due to age not size.

Ed Reed - 5'10" 200lbs

Troy Polamalu - 5'10" 206lbs

Antoine Bethea - 5'11" 202lbs

Ahmad Black - 5'10" 190lbs

I just don't see it being a big deal. He's young. He can add 10lbs of muscle and be prototypical size.



: June 05, 2012, 04:12:03 PM JDouble


GameTime

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#28 : June 05, 2012, 04:08:39 PM

Grimm ran a 4.55 at over 200 lbs compared to Black 4.7 at 185. He has every bit the physical measurables you want.

good point,  i got a bit mixed up. 

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#29 : June 05, 2012, 04:09:47 PM

Ronde has been playing a linebacker/safety type role for a few years now. If he has concerns about playing safety, it's probably due to age not size.
They broke the mold after they made Ronde.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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