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NotDeadYet

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#30 : June 28, 2012, 11:09:09 AM

    Clean slate. And yes, Miller has played with some injuries, and sat out games with injuries. Certainly slowed him down. Add to that having him put on weight for Bates' defense, then changing DCs and take weight off surely impacted his play in a bad way.
    As I said earlier, if Okam can stay in shape, he is probably a better NT candidate. Same goes for Price. A couple BIG "ifs" though... ;)

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#31 : June 28, 2012, 12:14:58 PM

Roy Miller was terrible!!

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#32 : June 28, 2012, 03:45:14 PM

Why bother reading a post either huh? I said Miller played poorly, but your awesome comprehension skills showed as much. This stat alone tells us very little how he played. He payed like crap, but this stat isnt the identifier by any means. A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets. He hasnt been able to eat up those either, but this stat doesnt show that, does it? Surely your feeble mind can understand that right? Then again, you probably wont read the entire post.

1. Its amusing making fun of the village idiot.

2. Where did you say Miller played poorly? Awesome comprehension skills alright.....

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

3. Roy Miller does not attract double teams. He is a non factor every game. Nice job making crap up on the spot. Just because somebody plays NT doesn't mean teams have to double team him. Your football knowledge or lack there of is shining through. Good job, the village idiot embarrass himself again. 2/2 for the week. Your on a hot streak bud!

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#33 : June 28, 2012, 03:48:21 PM

Pressures arent the only measurement for a NT in the pass rushing department. His ability to eat up double teams can be just as important or even more important.

Oh, so Miller is double-team eating machine?  Cool.  How many double teams did Miller take on compared to other players on this list?  Why in the hell would a team need to double-team Miller?

When you have to yank stuff from you anal cavity, you lose.



Miller wasnt too good at that either, but its not reflected by the 1 random PFF number now is it?

Again - WTF are you arguing.  You keep admitting Miller sucks while making excuses for his lack of pressures.

And LMAO @ "random".



The point is it is easy to look at a single number like pressures and say this guy sucks at pass rushing. In all actuallity, there are more contributing factors.

No, it's pretty easy to see is and who isn't good at pressuring the QB.  Why that's so damn hard for you to come out and admit is another issue altogether.
LOL, I'm trying to find out when teams started double teaming Roy Miller. He can't even shed one on one blocks. I learn something new everyday here. This is the same guy that compared Trent Richardson to Donald Brown. LMAO

Enough said

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#34 : June 28, 2012, 04:20:33 PM

Why bother reading a post either huh? I said Miller played poorly, but your awesome comprehension skills showed as much. This stat alone tells us very little how he played. He payed like crap, but this stat isnt the identifier by any means. A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets. He hasnt been able to eat up those either, but this stat doesnt show that, does it? Surely your feeble mind can understand that right? Then again, you probably wont read the entire post.

1. Its amusing making fun of the village idiot.

2. Where did you say Miller played poorly? Awesome comprehension skills alright.....

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

3. Roy Miller does not attract double teams. He is a non factor every game. Nice job making crap up on the spot. Just because somebody plays NT doesn't mean teams have to double team him. Your football knowledge or lack there of is shining through. Good job, the village idiot embarrass himself again. 2/2 for the week. Your on a hot streak bud!

geee, wonder where I said he didnt play good?  "Miller hasnt been very good" or "Miller isnt a pass rusher" or "He payed like crap"

yeah, I said he was all world. ::)  yep, comprehension.

Never said he did attract double teams. I said a NTs pass rushing grade should attribute more than just pressures. I explained how in 1 gap 4-3 schemes are generally meant for the NT to penetrate the A gap between the G and C and in theory drawing a double team. Because in a 4-3 1 gap scheme, a NT that draws a double opens up 1 on 1s for the DEs an the UT.

IN OTHER WORDS, GRADING A NTs PASS RUSHING PERFORMANCE ON JUST PRESSURES ALONE IS INCOMPLETE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ROYS PERFORMANCE.

I even stated "Miller wasnt too good at that either" in reference to eating up or drawing double teams.

READING COMPREHENSION. You guys are wrapped up on Roy Miller performance yet we are all in agreement he played poorly. Yet somehow you guys dont understand that. You fail to adress the simple concept thats prevalent in most 4-3 one gap schemes and thats that the NT is supposed to penetrate the A gap and draw a double from the G and C. his ability to do so also determines his success on pass rushing downs just as much as pressures.

Now you guys can try to spin this into me defending Miller more, but you aboth have clearly missed the point by a mile after it was explained 2 or 3 times. No need to get all butt hurt and start a bromance because someone questioned PFFs grading for the billionth time.




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#35 : June 28, 2012, 07:45:41 PM

Why bother reading a post either huh? I said Miller played poorly, but your awesome comprehension skills showed as much. This stat alone tells us very little how he played. He payed like crap, but this stat isnt the identifier by any means. A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets. He hasnt been able to eat up those either, but this stat doesnt show that, does it? Surely your feeble mind can understand that right? Then again, you probably wont read the entire post.

1. Its amusing making fun of the village idiot.

2. Where did you say Miller played poorly? Awesome comprehension skills alright.....

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

3. Roy Miller does not attract double teams. He is a non factor every game. Nice job making crap up on the spot. Just because somebody plays NT doesn't mean teams have to double team him. Your football knowledge or lack there of is shining through. Good job, the village idiot embarrass himself again. 2/2 for the week. Your on a hot streak bud!


geee, wonder where I said he didnt play good?  "Miller hasnt been very good" or "Miller isnt a pass rusher" or "He payed like crap"

yeah, I said he was all world. ::)  yep, comprehension.
Hey Jackass, I referenced the quote I quoted from Biggs. The quote I'm referencing to you didn't say "Miller hasn't been very good". See here:

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

Talk about reading comprehension.......

Quote from: ratman
Never said he did attract double teams. I said a NTs pass rushing grade should attribute more than just pressures. I explained how in 1 gap 4-3 schemes are generally meant for the NT to penetrate the A gap between the G and C and in theory drawing a double team. Because in a 4-3 1 gap scheme, a NT that draws a double opens up 1 on 1s for the DEs an the UT.

IN OTHER WORDS, GRADING A NTs PASS RUSHING PERFORMANCE ON JUST PRESSURES ALONE IS INCOMPLETE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ROYS PERFORMANCE.

I even stated "Miller wasnt too good at that either" in reference to eating up or drawing double teams.

READING COMPREHENSION. You guys are wrapped up on Roy Miller performance yet we are all in agreement he played poorly. Yet somehow you guys dont understand that. You fail to adress the simple concept thats prevalent in most 4-3 one gap schemes and thats that the NT is supposed to penetrate the A gap and draw a double from the G and C. his ability to do so also determines his success on pass rushing downs just as much as pressures.

Now you guys can try to spin this into me defending Miller more, but you aboth have clearly missed the point by a mile after it was explained 2 or 3 times. No need to get all butt hurt and start a bromance because someone questioned PFFs grading for the billionth time.
In other words: I'm pissed off that I got clowned for taking up for Roy Miller? Got ya

You keep saying Miller is a NT schematically. I'm saying him being left 1v1 in most games and STILL not getting pressures just shows how bad he is.

No, you don't understand that in "theory" Roy Miller didn't do his job. Just because he was suppose to "draw a double" doesn't mean he actually did it!! Clueless!!! LOL

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#36 : June 28, 2012, 09:30:37 PM

I'm suprised

Freeman has improved and I was wrong about him.

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#37 : June 28, 2012, 09:37:44 PM

Miller hasn't shown me much in terms of pressure. Also he has been atrocious against the run. Time to part ways with big tex.


Okoye Gibson McCoy price and even Okam all seem to have the uperhand.

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FIRE SCHIANO!!!!

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#38 : June 29, 2012, 01:14:54 AM

Miller is not a good football player.  Not in the NFL anyways.


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#39 : June 29, 2012, 02:46:55 AM

Why bother reading a post either huh? I said Miller played poorly, but your awesome comprehension skills showed as much. This stat alone tells us very little how he played. He payed like crap, but this stat isnt the identifier by any means. A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets. He hasnt been able to eat up those either, but this stat doesnt show that, does it? Surely your feeble mind can understand that right? Then again, you probably wont read the entire post.

1. Its amusing making fun of the village idiot.

2. Where did you say Miller played poorly? Awesome comprehension skills alright.....

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

3. Roy Miller does not attract double teams. He is a non factor every game. Nice job making crap up on the spot. Just because somebody plays NT doesn't mean teams have to double team him. Your football knowledge or lack there of is shining through. Good job, the village idiot embarrass himself again. 2/2 for the week. Your on a hot streak bud!


geee, wonder where I said he didnt play good?  "Miller hasnt been very good" or "Miller isnt a pass rusher" or "He payed like crap"

yeah, I said he was all world. ::)  yep, comprehension.
Hey Jackass, I referenced the quote I quoted from Biggs. The quote I'm referencing to you didn't say "Miller hasn't been very good". See here:

Once again, not defending Millers play, but these PFF numbers tell us very little about how Miller has performed.

Talk about reading comprehension.......

Quote from: ratman
Never said he did attract double teams. I said a NTs pass rushing grade should attribute more than just pressures. I explained how in 1 gap 4-3 schemes are generally meant for the NT to penetrate the A gap between the G and C and in theory drawing a double team. Because in a 4-3 1 gap scheme, a NT that draws a double opens up 1 on 1s for the DEs an the UT.

IN OTHER WORDS, GRADING A NTs PASS RUSHING PERFORMANCE ON JUST PRESSURES ALONE IS INCOMPLETE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ROYS PERFORMANCE.

I even stated "Miller wasnt too good at that either" in reference to eating up or drawing double teams.

READING COMPREHENSION. You guys are wrapped up on Roy Miller performance yet we are all in agreement he played poorly. Yet somehow you guys dont understand that. You fail to adress the simple concept thats prevalent in most 4-3 one gap schemes and thats that the NT is supposed to penetrate the A gap and draw a double from the G and C. his ability to do so also determines his success on pass rushing downs just as much as pressures.

Now you guys can try to spin this into me defending Miller more, but you aboth have clearly missed the point by a mile after it was explained 2 or 3 times. No need to get all butt hurt and start a bromance because someone questioned PFFs grading for the billionth time.
In other words: I'm pissed off that I got clowned for taking up for Roy Miller? Got ya

You keep saying Miller is a NT schematically. I'm saying him being left 1v1 in most games and STILL not getting pressures just shows how bad he is.

No, you don't understand that in "theory" Roy Miller didn't do his job. Just because he was suppose to "draw a double" doesn't mean he actually did it!! Clueless!!! LOL

haha, you cant read at all can you? your just repeating what I said and acting like I was defending Miller. that was never the case as Ive stated it 4 or 5 times now. i dont even know how to respond to this. I never said he did draw doubles. In fact i said he wasnt too good at it(I even quoted the points where I said as much)...as in he did that poorly as well. Once again, Im completely unsure that you are even reading my posts. I say something, you agree with it, and then try and clown on me for being in agreement.

You make absolutely no sense. Im not sure if this a pathetic attempt to save face or what. If you just want to name call, why not just skip to that? You clearly arent reading my post or you are trying to ignore them. Now just agree with me some more and throw in some more name calling.

its like you are just making fun of midgets while being 4 ft tall. Its completely senseless.



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#40 : June 29, 2012, 09:30:36 AM

I never said he did draw doubles.


That's just about all you've been saying:


NTs are often asked to eat up 2 blockers to create better matchups for the other D-linemen. So ultimately, these numbers only tell a small fraction of the story. If guy like Franklin(many consider pretty good or at least average) or Miller are eating up blocks, its just as good as a pressure.

Theres a reason for that.....Miller is a block eater(in theory anyways), not a pass rusher.

Sorry bud, but thats not right. The NT is lined up over the LGs inside shoulder in most fronts(1-gap schemes) and is supposed to shoot the A gap, thus drawing the C and G(4 man rush). This leaves the more athletic UT a 1 on 1 matchup against the RG. It also leaves the DEs in 1 on 1s(unless TE or RB help). NT is supposed to penetrate, yes, but that is to draw the double. If he still get penetration beyond that, they arte usually one of the best in the league if its somewhat consistent.

A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets.

His ability to eat up double teams can be just as important or even more important.


You must like the taste of your own foot.


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#41 : June 29, 2012, 01:15:16 PM

I think I have to step in for tatmanfish here.  As I understand what he's saying, there are two separate issues here: what a NT is supposed to do and what Millier is actually doing.  I don't think that tatmanfish is suggesting anywhere in this thread that Miller has actually played well.  Rather, I think what he's suggested is that even if he HAD played well, it wouldn't necessarily have shown up in the stats.

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#42 : June 29, 2012, 02:23:44 PM

I never said he did draw doubles.


That's just about all you've been saying:


NTs are often asked to eat up 2 blockers to create better matchups for the other D-linemen. So ultimately, these numbers only tell a small fraction of the story. If guy like Franklin(many consider pretty good or at least average) or Miller are eating up blocks, its just as good as a pressure.

Theres a reason for that.....Miller is a block eater(in theory anyways), not a pass rusher.

Sorry bud, but thats not right. The NT is lined up over the LGs inside shoulder in most fronts(1-gap schemes) and is supposed to shoot the A gap, thus drawing the C and G(4 man rush). This leaves the more athletic UT a 1 on 1 matchup against the RG. It also leaves the DEs in 1 on 1s(unless TE or RB help). NT is supposed to penetrate, yes, but that is to draw the double. If he still get penetration beyond that, they arte usually one of the best in the league if its somewhat consistent.

A NT is measured more by the double teams he draws than the pressure he gets.

His ability to eat up double teams can be just as important or even more important.


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He is clueless. I give up

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#43 : June 29, 2012, 02:43:13 PM

I think I have to step in for tatmanfish here.  As I understand what he's saying, there are two separate issues here: what a NT is supposed to do and what Millier is actually doing.  I don't think that tatmanfish is suggesting anywhere in this thread that Miller has actually played well.  Rather, I think what he's suggested is that even if he HAD played well, it wouldn't necessarily have shown up in the stats.
Any normal person including the PFF writers would look at this list of worst pass rushing DT's and know that players like Aubrayo Franklin, Casey Hampton, and Vince Wilfork are/were still good players despite not being good pass rushers and Roy Miller, Ryan McBean, and Ziggy Hood are bad players because they're not good pass rushers and because they're not good at anything else, either. For whatever reason, TMF just wants to have an imaginary argument.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#44 : June 29, 2012, 09:38:11 PM

I think I have to step in for tatmanfish here.  As I understand what he's saying, there are two separate issues here: what a NT is supposed to do and what Millier is actually doing.  I don't think that tatmanfish is suggesting anywhere in this thread that Miller has actually played well.  Rather, I think what he's suggested is that even if he HAD played well, it wouldn't necessarily have shown up in the stats.

wow, someone with reading comprehension.



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