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CyberDilemma

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#90 : July 06, 2012, 04:08:19 PM


Seriously doubt that you can judge Gruden's career at this point.

I think with Gruden's career moves the only person whom it would be fair to compare him to would be John Madden. Who do you think wins that comparison?

ryan24

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#91 : July 06, 2012, 05:42:53 PM



Dungy took another perennial loser (Indy) that had an atrocious defense and made their defense decent and won a Super Bowl. So, to answer your question, just like he found Simeon Rice and developed Lynch Sapp, and Brooks, I think he would have still made a winner out of Tampa. You say Gruden inherited a team on the decline? I don't think so. He inherited a team on the cusp of greatness.

This may have been answered by someone else but the Colts were not perennial losers when Dungy joined them. They were coming off an injury filled 6-10 season under Mora but were 10-6 and 13-3 the two years prior.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

ryan24

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#92 : July 06, 2012, 05:45:27 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to say we don't win a Superbowl without Gruden.... i will say we don't win one with Dungy. I believe that any coach with a lil bit of offense puts us over the top. Gruden's post 02 record is nothing to brag about.

The problem, I think, is that the window was closing and whoever it was would have had to do it within a year or two IMHO. My biggest concern with the apparent hiring of Parcells was that he would teardown the team, at least enough to have them take a step back and ultimately not be able to build it back up again. I think Parcells ended up feeling the same as the reason he dropped out was because of Tannenbaum's assessment of the cap situation.


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ryan24

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#93 : July 06, 2012, 05:50:29 PM

It's Dungy by default I think, he was the one that turned the franchise around, and Gruden was nothing more than the OC for a below average offense while the great defense he had nothing to do with won him games.

The only two times with either coach at the helm that the defense was number 1 was while Gruden was head coach.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

ryan24

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#94 : July 06, 2012, 05:52:20 PM

All our head coaches had serious flaws but since only one won a Lombardi you have to give it to that guy by default whether you like him or not.

So by your flawed logic...Brad Johnson is the best QB in Bucs history?

He probably has been.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

ryan24

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#95 : July 06, 2012, 05:55:38 PM

It's a tough choice. I like both coaches but Gruden won the championship and Dungy didn't.

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Uncle Stan

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#96 : July 07, 2012, 08:08:58 AM

It's Dungy by default I think, he was the one that turned the franchise around, and Gruden was nothing more than the OC for a below average offense while the great defense he had nothing to do with won him games.

The only two times with either coach at the helm that the defense was number 1 was while Gruden was head coach.
[/quote

Gruden played no part  with that. Numerous times Gruden emphasized he had nothing to do with the defense-that was strictly Monte's job.

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dbucfan

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#97 : July 07, 2012, 08:14:01 AM

The offense had something to do with the Stan - a more effective offense that can keep the ball provides a pretty nice assist to a defense...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#98 : July 07, 2012, 10:52:33 AM

It's Dungy by default I think, he was the one that turned the franchise around, and Gruden was nothing more than the OC for a below average offense while the great defense he had nothing to do with won him games.

The only two times with either coach at the helm that the defense was number 1 was while Gruden was head coach.

Gruden played no part  with that. Numerous times Gruden emphasized he had nothing to do with the defense-that was strictly Monte's job.
The head coach instills the mindset for the entire team. Under Gruden, the entire team focused and maximized their abilities on a much more consistent level than under Dungy. In his seven seasons, they only underachieved once (2003). All the other years they did what they were capable of or more. Half of Dungy's teams underachieved. How the heck did the 1998 team with the #2 total defense and #4 rushing offense only go 8-8? I'll never know.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

ryan24

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#99 : July 07, 2012, 10:57:35 AM

It's Dungy by default I think, he was the one that turned the franchise around, and Gruden was nothing more than the OC for a below average offense while the great defense he had nothing to do with won him games.

The only two times with either coach at the helm that the defense was number 1 was while Gruden was head coach.

Gruden played no part  with that. Numerous times Gruden emphasized he had nothing to do with the defense-that was strictly Monte's job.

Why is it that the head coach of other teams gets credit or blame for anything and everything which occurs with their team yet we try and divide up responsibilities with this particular coach?

Sapp has said that Gruden did work with the defense in the sense of presenting offensive looks they'd get during the season from various teams which was a change from the previous staff. He also credited Gruden with giving the defense a better attitude and challenging them more effectively.
: July 07, 2012, 10:59:31 AM ryan24

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jerseybucsfan

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#100 : July 07, 2012, 02:19:26 PM

It should be noted that the defense regressed from 1999 to 2000 to 2001. To give Dungy credit for what the Bucs' D did in 2002 is folly. Ryan's post is right on. There was nothing that said ''championship team'' when Dungy left. They were 16-15 over his last 31 games in Tampa. But to be fair, too much is being made about the coach's roles in all of this. Wyche and McKay did a good job in stocking the cupboard and Allen did not. Gruden only got the tail-end of a very talented team. Too bad our good drafting stopped before Gruden arrived.

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