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dbucfan

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#30 : July 23, 2012, 06:05:36 PM

telling business owners they didn't build their businesses.
He never said such a thing
1:45
At 1:45 he's clearly referring to infrastructure.  He never once says they didn't build their businesses.
Clearly, just like when he suggested Bill Clinton made millionaires.  He's a thought, while I didn't like everything that Clinton did I have never once thought of Clinton when looking at Obama's performance - and vice versa. 

Obama said "they didn't build that".  If you don't want to make "that" their businesses and you want it to be bridges and roads it really doesn't matter in the context of the entire video.  Now there is the issue that businesses do build bridges and roads, and they fund the tax coffers now more than ever - but it is pretty easy to avoid the meaning of the speech if you want to. 

Not smarter, nor harder workers, the business owners are either lucky or doing something else that is not of their efforts to make money.  It would seem a pretty unavoidable conclusion. 
: July 23, 2012, 06:07:46 PM dbucfan

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Dolorous Jason

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#31 : July 23, 2012, 07:42:22 PM

telling business owners they didn't build their businesses.
He never said such a thing
1:45
At 1:45 he's clearly referring to infrastructure.  He never once says they didn't build their businesses.
Clearly, just like when he suggested Bill Clinton made millionaires.  He's a thought, while I didn't like everything that Clinton did I have never once thought of Clinton when looking at Obama's performance - and vice versa. 

Obama said "they didn't build that".  If you don't want to make "that" their businesses and you want it to be bridges and roads it really doesn't matter in the context of the entire video. 

Exactly . The point he was trying to make is that we can't do anything ourselves. The fact that the now famous "you didn't build that" quote is referring to infrastructure doesn't make it any better in the context of the rest of that idiotic rant...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#32 : July 23, 2012, 10:13:25 PM

Not quite Jason, notice that everybody he raised up for praise was a Govt employee or what Prezbo considers a Govt structure. His point was that you might think you are brilliant, you might think you are busting your ass but without us (Govt) you are nothing.

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#33 : July 23, 2012, 10:14:52 PM


Apparently, we should be more grateful that they allow us to use the infrastructure our money paid for. Quite generous of the government. I feel I owe them even more now.

So without the government facilitating it, "your" money still would have went to building infrastructure? Amazing that no private entities thought to pool their monies together in order to build a national highway system before the Eisenhower administration decided to. Seems like since it has been such a boon to private industry, they would have "built that" before the government decided to use tax dollars to.


bradentonian

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#34 : July 23, 2012, 10:24:48 PM

telling business owners they didn't build their businesses.


He never said such a thing

But he was saying that business owners would not have been able to succeed without Government. In essence they only have a business because of the largesse of the Feds.

I have to be honest and say I think the words "you did not build that" was referring to infrastructure etc. That line may have been taken out of context, but, the whole tone and CONTEXT OF THE SPEECH is that business owners were "lucky" to have their businesses because they only got there due to the efforts of "public servants". Anybody disagree with that?


If Bill Gates grew up in Bangladesh working as a wage-slave child laborer in a textile mill, where do you think Microsoft would be today? 
If Steve Jobs was born in central Africa where boys are recruited into liberation armies with drugs before they hit puberty, what do you think his contribution to Apple would have been?
Oprah overcame tremendous hardships on her way to success, but if she had been born in Thailand and sold into sex slavery as a girl, would you lay odds on her having the same media empire she owns today?


dbucfan

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#35 : July 23, 2012, 10:35:12 PM

So you are thinking the government is the difference between the US and Bangladesh, Central Africa and Thailand?  No my friend, it is the people of the US that make the difference, not the "facilitator" who arrange for private companies to build roads and bridges where their constituents want them.  Now if we could just get the money from sticking to the facilitators fingers....

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

bradentonian

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#36 : July 23, 2012, 11:37:33 PM

So you are thinking the government is the difference between the US and Bangladesh, Central Africa and Thailand?  No my friend, it is the people of the US that make the difference, not the "facilitator" who arrange for private companies to build roads and bridges where their constituents want them.  Now if we could just get the money from sticking to the facilitators fingers....

What makes the people of the US any different from people in the rest of the world?  We're all the same species made up of the same DNA.  It wasn't long ago that in many parts of this country it was socially acceptable (and legal) to discriminate against others based on the color of their skin.  People were lynched to bloody pulps just for the misfortune of being born black.  We had captains of industry happily working "chinamen" to their deaths and working children in sweatshops for 80 hours a week in toxic chemicals so they could fatten their profit margins.  The government had and has a lot to do with helping shape the society that affords the kind of quality of life that a lot of folks apparently take for granted here.  It's certainly not the only variable, but it's silly to pretend its contributions to our societal support system aren't a significant factor in affording people the tools they can use to succeed.


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#37 : July 24, 2012, 12:02:35 AM

It's as if many have forgotten that the pomise upon formation of this country was LIMITED government.

It's also as if many have forgotten that the original burden of taxation was placed solely on the wealthy, and was done so for the purposes of building roads and schools to be used by all.

You are also incorrect. The debate over the size and role of the Federal government has existed for as long as the country itself has. The founding fathers were in no way, shape, or form all unified behind a small, limited government.


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#38 : July 24, 2012, 07:50:56 AM

 Building roads is mentioned in the constitution as an enumerated power. Article I, Section 8, Clause 7
 
 I don't think anyone even has a problem with that. His argument is based on a flawed premise that people who believe in limited government don't even want roads. Not true. This guy is supposed to be smart and he's a **CENSORED**ing moron.

There's a huge difference between infrastructure building and attempting to micro-manage the entire economy and every other aspect of our private lives.
: July 24, 2012, 07:54:25 AM Fire Mark Dummynik

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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#39 : July 24, 2012, 08:07:29 AM

Building roads is mentioned in the constitution as an enumerated power. Article I, Section 8, Clause 7
 
 I don't think anyone even has a problem with that. His argument is based on a flawed premise that people who believe in limited government don't even want roads. Not true. This guy is supposed to be smart and he's a **CENSORED**ing moron.

There's a huge difference between infrastructure building and attempting to micro-manage the entire economy and every other aspect of our private lives.

See Bradentonian's last post in the thread. I think it's a good example of what Obama was referring to. Simply building roads didn't create the middle class or the "American Dream".


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#40 : July 24, 2012, 08:14:04 AM


" So without the government facilitating it,"your" money still would have went to building infrastructure?"

I paid them to facilitate it, you nitwit. Your postulate of 'it's necessary to have some government' is not a valid defense of 'the more government the better.'

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

dbucfan

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#41 : July 24, 2012, 08:17:33 AM

So you are thinking the government is the difference between the US and Bangladesh, Central Africa and Thailand?  No my friend, it is the people of the US that make the difference, not the "facilitator" who arrange for private companies to build roads and bridges where their constituents want them.  Now if we could just get the money from sticking to the facilitators fingers....

What makes the people of the US any different from people in the rest of the world?  We're all the same species made up of the same DNA.  It wasn't long ago that in many parts of this country it was socially acceptable (and legal) to discriminate against others based on the color of their skin.  People were lynched to bloody pulps just for the misfortune of being born black.  We had captains of industry happily working "chinamen" to their deaths and working children in sweatshops for 80 hours a week in toxic chemicals so they could fatten their profit margins.  The government had and has a lot to do with helping shape the society that affords the kind of quality of life that a lot of folks apparently take for granted here.  It's certainly not the only variable, but it's silly to pretend its contributions to our societal support system aren't a significant factor in affording people the tools they can use to succeed.
The difference has been explained since the beginnings of the country.  It is the independence, the concept of republic vs other forms of governance, and ability to move about, physically and fiscally. 

Racism, slavery and abysmal working conditions were not invented nor created in the US.  One might offer huge improvements in all have occurred in the US.  None of those improvements began within the elected officials, but rather within the population. And the population seems to have the ability see the difference between right and wrong - unlike the republic's representatives.  I would differ with your thoughts bradentonian - for the greatest portion of its' history, if not its' complete period of existence, I believe it has been the people of the United States who have identified and produced the difference.  No genetically, but intellectually from an environment than has permitted such a difference.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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#42 : July 24, 2012, 08:56:07 AM


" So without the government facilitating it,"your" money still would have went to building infrastructure?"

I paid them to facilitate it, you nitwit. Your postulate of 'it's necessary to have some government' is not a valid defense of 'the more government the better.'

Ah yes. Limited government and laisse faire capitalism. History has shown that to have worked smashing well for us, hasn't it?  ::)


bradentonian

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#43 : July 24, 2012, 08:56:23 AM

No genetically, but intellectually from an environment than has permitted such a difference.

I think that sentiment is perfectly in line with Obama's speech


CBWx2

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#44 : July 24, 2012, 09:17:01 AM

So you are thinking the government is the difference between the US and Bangladesh, Central Africa and Thailand?  No my friend, it is the people of the US that make the difference, not the "facilitator" who arrange for private companies to build roads and bridges where their constituents want them.  Now if we could just get the money from sticking to the facilitators fingers....

What makes the people of the US any different from people in the rest of the world?  We're all the same species made up of the same DNA.  It wasn't long ago that in many parts of this country it was socially acceptable (and legal) to discriminate against others based on the color of their skin.  People were lynched to bloody pulps just for the misfortune of being born black.  We had captains of industry happily working "chinamen" to their deaths and working children in sweatshops for 80 hours a week in toxic chemicals so they could fatten their profit margins.  The government had and has a lot to do with helping shape the society that affords the kind of quality of life that a lot of folks apparently take for granted here.  It's certainly not the only variable, but it's silly to pretend its contributions to our societal support system aren't a significant factor in affording people the tools they can use to succeed.
The difference has been explained since the beginnings of the country.  It is the independence, the concept of republic vs other forms of governance, and ability to move about, physically and fiscally. 

Racism, slavery and abysmal working conditions were not invented nor created in the US.  One might offer huge improvements in all have occurred in the US.  None of those improvements began within the elected officials, but rather within the population. And the population seems to have the ability see the difference between right and wrong - unlike the republic's representatives.  I would differ with your thoughts bradentonian - for the greatest portion of its' history, if not its' complete period of existence, I believe it has been the people of the United States who have identified and produced the difference.  No genetically, but intellectually from an environment than has permitted such a difference.

dbuc, I agree with you 100% here, but what's missing in your statement is the fact that it was the government who the people turned to to right all of these wrongs, or more specifically, they lobbied their elected officials to legislate the change that they wanted to see. In every single scenario that you are speaking about, the public cried out for the government to get involved in an area where it previously had not been. The movement from laisse faire capitalism to New Deal socialism that took place around the turn of the century was the result of public outcry. The government wasn't operating autonomously. The reason government grew exponentially during that time was because the people were calling for it. The result was a better society that we all currently benefit from.

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