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CBWx2

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#165 : August 26, 2012, 12:29:03 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then

Except with other laws it can be proven that someone committed a crime.


wreck ship

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#166 : August 26, 2012, 12:50:46 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then
just the ones that require constant tax payers funding. You see a traffic light is a one time fee and regulates the masses like magic. Abortion and **CENSORED** like marijuana regulation requires a fully funded dept that never really justifies their budget.

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

CBWx2

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#167 : August 26, 2012, 01:00:33 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then
just the ones that require constant tax payers funding. You see a traffic light is a one time fee and regulates the masses like magic. Abortion and **CENSORED** like marijuana regulation requires a fully funded dept that never really justifies their budget.

Exactly. Unlike with murder or infanticide, where there is an on the books person that comes up missing, very rarely will it ever be proven that a woman got an illegal abortion, because there is no possible way to catalog when every women gets pregnant. So the fact of the matter is, abortions are going to happen whether they are legal or not. You will simply be spending time and resources prosecuting the women involved in the few cases that can be proven, and the vast majority that take place you will never even know about. But perhaps that's the point. Make it illegal, and turn the blind eye and pretend it's not happening anymore. Saves the conscience, I suppose. Doesn't actually do anything to address the problem though.


Cyrus

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#168 : August 26, 2012, 01:12:50 PM

Anything we can do to put more people in jail I am down with.  ???

We just don't have enough people incarcerated in this country  ::)

We need more laws and more prisoners. :o

Just keep feeding that beast!!  :'(

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#169 : August 26, 2012, 01:32:48 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then
just the ones that require constant tax payers funding. You see a traffic light is a one time fee and regulates the masses like magic. Abortion and **CENSORED** like marijuana regulation requires a fully funded dept that never really justifies their budget.

Exactly. Unlike with murder or infanticide, where there is an on the books person that comes up missing, very rarely will it ever be proven that a woman got an illegal abortion, because there is no possible way to catalog when every women gets pregnant. So the fact of the matter is, abortions are going to happen whether they are legal or not. You will simply be spending time and resources prosecuting the women involved in the few cases that can be proven, and the vast majority that take place you will never even know about. But perhaps that's the point. Make it illegal, and turn the blind eye and pretend it's not happening anymore. Saves the conscience, I suppose. Doesn't actually do anything to address the problem though.
I understand your point - but honestly that logic offered in your response wasn't your best, nor too convincing.  Now - we can agree on some things.  There can't and shouldn't be laws for every damned thing that folks do - whether it is drugs or as in this case abortion.  Some of the very same things are taught to some and not too others consistent with one's beliefs.  That is what makes the Pro Life (on a personal basis) Pro Choice (for other citizenry) position possible. 

The issues that arise from those choices are those of the individual as well.  I have little to no interest in protecting folks from their own choices, and I have even less interest in subsidizing their choices.  And I don't believe such choices mean laws that are needed and "on the books" don't apply to those who make costly choices whether they be criminal or civil.  One is still accountable for their actions that wrong others.

This is the land for freedoms - but having such freedoms provides equal opportunity, and opportunity only. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

wreck ship

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#170 : August 26, 2012, 01:33:11 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then
just the ones that require constant tax payers funding. You see a traffic light is a one time fee and regulates the masses like magic. Abortion and **CENSORED** like marijuana regulation requires a fully funded dept that never really justifies their budget.

Exactly. Unlike with murder or infanticide, where there is an on the books person that comes up missing, very rarely will it ever be proven that a woman got an illegal abortion, because there is no possible way to catalog when every women gets pregnant. So the fact of the matter is, abortions are going to happen whether they are legal or not. You will simply be spending time and resources prosecuting the women involved in the few cases that can be proven, and the vast majority that take place you will never even know about. But perhaps that's the point. Make it illegal, and turn the blind eye and pretend it's not happening anymore. Saves the conscience, I suppose. Doesn't actually do anything to address the problem though.
that is unless conservatives come up with some hair brain scheme like a bait clinic. All will be well in their world until their daughter or wives show up.lol

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

dbucfan

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#171 : August 26, 2012, 01:52:07 PM

The issue to me is the government funding of abortions, as well as forcing health plans to cover those costs.  And yea, I feel the same way about birth control pills.  Somewhere someone is going to have to be accountable for their decisions.  Call it what you will - removing the cost or penalty of one's actions is not the right way to go. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

wreck ship

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#172 : August 26, 2012, 02:26:07 PM

The issue to me is the government funding of abortions, as well as forcing health plans to cover those costs.  And yea, I feel the same way about birth control pills.  Somewhere someone is going to have to be accountable for their decisions.  Call it what you will - removing the cost or penalty of one's actions is not the right way to go.
the issue to me is why do political junkies try and generalize and trivialize a minor occurance like abortion?
Are abortions a big enough drain on our economy to warrant judicial review and regulatory funding? No.
How much gov funding contributed to abortion in 2011? How many abortions were conducted that yr and what was the age range of patients?
I know of a clinic in atl that is staffed by volunteer doctors and they dont generate enough business to stay open more than 3 days a week. Mostly by appt only.
point is, when I hear political talking heads cry over abortion Im thinking they must be distracting from a bigger issue b/c on the ground level, its not really a huge issue. Conservative extremist make it bigger than it really is and this Atkins congressman is a perfect example.

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

spartan

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#173 : August 26, 2012, 02:35:44 PM



If I was to take my infant child to Canada and toss it in a dumpster and it died due to exposure, would I not be arrested and charged with murder upon return? We are talking about treating abortion as though it were infanticide, are we not? Why is that an absurd question?

You would normally be arrested and extradited at the request of the Canadian authorities. The US courts would have zero jurisdiction.

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#174 : August 26, 2012, 02:37:53 PM

Here's a question for you. Say the anti-choice side get their way, and that a pregnant woman decides to get an abortion in Canada after abortion is deemed illegal in the US. Upon return, does the mother get arrested and tried for murder?

Why do you keep asking patently absurd questions like this?

If I was to take my infant child to Canada and toss it in a dumpster and it died due to exposure, would I not be arrested and charged with murder upon return? We are talking about treating abortion as though it were infanticide, are we not? Why is that an absurd question?

If you were to take your infant child to Canada and kill it, you would have committed a crime in Canada, and would be extradited to Canada for your trial.  You wouldn't be charged and tried in America for something you did in another country.

Addressing your first question - if you went to have a legal abortion in Canada and came back to America, you would have broken no laws in America.  So no, you would not be arrested and tried for murder.  That is why your question is patently absurd.


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#175 : August 26, 2012, 02:41:07 PM

Conservative extremist make it bigger than it really is and this Atkins congressman is a perfect example.

Conservative extremists huh?

Who was the last Conservative or even Republican that campaigned on some "womans reproductive" issue? Now ask yourself the question who keeps bringing this up during elections, and who has tried to force abortions etc down the throats of people who say it is against their religious beliefs? I am going to take an educated guess and say it wasn't a Conservative "extremist!"

spartan

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#176 : August 26, 2012, 02:46:41 PM

Sorry, that's just a B$ explanation for me.  She shouldn't get to play "God" just because she didn't take the proper precautions.
Wether she should or shouldn't doesn't matter. What matters is the serenity to accept the things you can't control like some pregant women getting an abortion. If a women WANTS to get an abortion, law or no law, she's gonna get an abortion.

True, we should probably get rid of all laws then
just the ones that require constant tax payers funding. You see a traffic light is a one time fee and regulates the masses like magic. Abortion and **CENSORED** like marijuana regulation requires a fully funded dept that never really justifies their budget.

Exactly. Unlike with murder or infanticide, where there is an on the books person that comes up missing, very rarely will it ever be proven that a woman got an illegal abortion, because there is no possible way to catalog when every women gets pregnant. So the fact of the matter is, abortions are going to happen whether they are legal or not. You will simply be spending time and resources prosecuting the women involved in the few cases that can be proven, and the vast majority that take place you will never even know about. But perhaps that's the point. Make it illegal, and turn the blind eye and pretend it's not happening anymore. Saves the conscience, I suppose. Doesn't actually do anything to address the problem though.

I am sorry but "there is no point in making it illegal because people are going to do it anyway" is not your most ever convincing argument. Whatever the subject that applies to every law we have.

CBWx2

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#177 : August 26, 2012, 02:48:30 PM

Conservative extremist make it bigger than it really is and this Atkins congressman is a perfect example.

Conservative extremists huh?

Who was the last Conservative or even Republican that campaigned on some "womans reproductive" issue? Now ask yourself the question who keeps bringing this up during elections, and who has tried to force abortions etc down the throats of people who say it is against their religious beliefs? I am going to take an educated guess and say it wasn't a Conservative "extremist!"

You're right. conservatives don't campaign on women's reproductive issues because it's a losing issue for them, so they campaign on other issues and just try to pass women's reproductive reform after they get elected. Let's not pretend here that liberals are making this an issue just for the sake of making it an issue. They are making it an issue because conservatives are trying their damnedest to change standing laws.


wreck ship

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#178 : August 26, 2012, 02:50:29 PM

Conservative extremist make it bigger than it really is and this Atkins congressman is a perfect example.

Conservative extremists huh?

Who was the last Conservative or even Republican that campaigned on some "womans reproductive" issue? Now ask yourself the question who keeps bringing this up during elections, and who has tried to force abortions etc down the throats of people who say it is against their religious beliefs? I am going to take an educated guess and say it wasn't a Conservative "extremist!"
this Atkins character is the last one that I can think of

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

spartan

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#179 : August 26, 2012, 03:04:03 PM

Conservative extremist make it bigger than it really is and this Atkins congressman is a perfect example.

Conservative extremists huh?

Who was the last Conservative or even Republican that campaigned on some "womans reproductive" issue? Now ask yourself the question who keeps bringing this up during elections, and who has tried to force abortions etc down the throats of people who say it is against their religious beliefs? I am going to take an educated guess and say it wasn't a Conservative "extremist!"

You're right. conservatives don't campaign on women's reproductive issues because it's a losing issue for them, so they campaign on other issues and just try to pass women's reproductive reform after they get elected. Let's not pretend here that liberals are making this an issue just for the sake of making it an issue. They are making it an issue because conservatives are trying their damnedest to change standing laws.

The only (recent) bills I am aware of at the Federal level that address abortion is the denial of Federal funds for abortions. These have been in place in one shape or another for about 30 years until the current Administration circumvented this by Presidential fiat. Same with the birth control issue.  In fact it wasn't an issue until the President made it one. I am open to correction.

Before that, late term abortion which I think we can all agree is an abomination.
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