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traew01

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: August 22, 2012, 02:47:45 PM

I alluded to this in another thread - but I really think this offense could be dynamic with Martin as the focal point.

His college highlight reel is a thing of beauty - and from what little I have seen thus far in pre-season I see Doug Martin as the only player on this offense who I would call a playmaker. I think Blount definitely has a role on this team, but I think Martin is the real deal as a franchise back. Get him going - not only carrying the rock but also in the passing game in the flats and on screens - and I think it will open things up for this offense.

One very intriguing thing happened last week against Tennessee that has not really been talked about too much. The Bucs said they came out with a game plan of getting the ball to Vincent Jackson on intermediate and deep routes. And unfortunately Tennesse came out in a two deep safety defense and took that away completely. And the reason Tennessee - and other defenses - are able to play two deep like that is because they have ZERO RESPECT for a our running game. And honestly, with Blount back there tip toeing around I can see why.

Now, I realize our offensive line is going to have to show vast improvement before we can really get Martin going. They played like crap last week - especially the reserves. But the Bucs need to commit to Doug Martin - and get him going - so that the line can adapt to his running style, and Doug can adapt to the types of holes our line creates for him. The running game is so much about rhythm between the line and the back - and I just cannot see the Bucs developing that sort of relationship if they keep swapping between Blount and Martin. Just two completely different backs.

Let's commit to Martin as the franchise back - let's find a role for Blount in various situations - and let's get this thing going. I think Martin can very much be our Ray Rice - but we have to make that commitment and get it rolling. Create an identity for this floundering offense.
 
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#1 : August 22, 2012, 02:55:21 PM

Later on maybe, right off the bat, I don't think so.

They need to see if they can build the offense around Freeman first.


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#2 : August 22, 2012, 02:58:21 PM

Put him in with the 1st team this week. Let him run behind Nicks and Joseph a little more and see what happens.

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#3 : August 22, 2012, 03:01:02 PM

I hope Martin turns out to be a good player, but in 2012 there's no such thing as a franchise running back. You build around your quarterback or you get a top 5 pick to try again.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

traew01

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#4 : August 22, 2012, 03:01:37 PM

Later on maybe, right off the bat, I don't think so.

They need to see if they can build the offense around Freeman first.


I actually think that therein lies the root of our problem the last 3 years.

Freeman is not a QB you build your offense around. He is not a guy who will take an offense on his shoulders and dominate. He is - unfortunately - a guy that we just need to ask to manage the game and not make mistakes. We saw what happened last year when he tried to become Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady - he sucked.

Let's get a running game going with Martin and put Freeman in manageable situations - where he can do the things he did two years ago like scramble and run for first downs, throw the ball away when he has to, and hit those clutch throws for first downs and move the chains. If we think that because we signed Vincent Jackson that suddenly Freeman is going to be stretching the field and opening things up - we will be sorely disappointed. I just do not think he is that QB.




 


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#5 : August 22, 2012, 03:05:51 PM

Later on maybe, right off the bat, I don't think so.

They need to see if they can build the offense around Freeman first.


I actually think that therein lies the root of our problem the last 3 years.

Freeman is not a QB you build your offense around. He is not a guy who will take an offense on his shoulders and dominate. He is - unfortunately - a guy that we just need to ask to manage the game and not make mistakes. We saw what happened last year when he tried to become Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady - he sucked.

Let's get a running game going with Martin and put Freeman in manageable situations - where he can do the things he did two years ago like scramble and run for first downs, throw the ball away when he has to, and hit those clutch throws for first downs and move the chains. If we think that because we signed Vincent Jackson that suddenly Freeman is going to be stretching the field and opening things up - we will be sorely disappointed. I just do not think he is that QB.




A little early to come to that conclusion IMO.  After this season we will know a lot more.

So.....why exactly did we sign Vjax?


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#6 : August 22, 2012, 03:06:07 PM

As much as I love watching LGB run the ball, I'm starting to think Martin may be the way to go, then have LGB be the "closer". Martin is not only faster, but has more wiggle and better vision.

Though I still jump to the edge of my seat my LGB gets to the second level. He can do something amazing at any time.

And yes, there will be a mixture of them this year. But I think they need the right mixture to succeed. And I think that is going to be with Martin taking the lead.


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#7 : August 22, 2012, 03:09:08 PM

I really like Doug Martin. But this offense was built around Josh Freeman even though Schiano wants this to be a "power running" team. We don't quite have the personnel for that just yet especially in the TE's. Clark is not really a blocking man and Stocker can't stay healthy to prove himself. Dunsmore is making a run on him. Fullback wise, Lorig holds a reputation for missing crucial blocks and isn't the effective back he needs to be to just topple linebackers in his way.
And no one really wants to build a franchise around a RB anymore. Look what happens.
Vikings: AP, probably best back to come out of college in the past 5 years is still out with a knee injury. That franchise is in shambles.
Tennessee: Although he seems back, CJ2K left this offense in shambles last year with his dismal performance especially after a Huge contract.
Those are just two. Reality is that making a RB your cornerstone is risky. One awkward shot to the knee and there goes your year.
There's no need to build an offense around him. He'll still be our leading rusher and do some damage through the air as well. The league has changed and franchising a RB is hella risky.

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#8 : August 22, 2012, 03:11:01 PM

If you trade up into the first round for any RB, you clearly have planned for this.


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#9 : August 22, 2012, 03:12:16 PM

Later on maybe, right off the bat, I don't think so.

They need to see if they can build the offense around Freeman first.


I actually think that therein lies the root of our problem the last 3 years.

Freeman is not a QB you build your offense around. He is not a guy who will take an offense on his shoulders and dominate. He is - unfortunately - a guy that we just need to ask to manage the game and not make mistakes. We saw what happened last year when he tried to become Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady - he sucked.

Let's get a running game going with Martin and put Freeman in manageable situations - where he can do the things he did two years ago like scramble and run for first downs, throw the ball away when he has to, and hit those clutch throws for first downs and move the chains. If we think that because we signed Vincent Jackson that suddenly Freeman is going to be stretching the field and opening things up - we will be sorely disappointed. I just do not think he is that QB.




A little early to come to that conclusion IMO.  After this season we will know a lot more.

So.....why exactly did we sign Vjax?

We signed him so other teams will respect our pass game. To let the know, yeah were gonna run this ball down your throat, but second you drop your safeties and fill the box, we'll go over deep and beat you for a touchdown. Football is very much like chess. You have to account for every piece on the board even if the player isn't using them. V-Jax is that deep threat the team will have to always account for.

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#10 : August 22, 2012, 03:13:39 PM

If you trade up into the first round for any RB, you clearly have planned for this.
We got Martin because our running was becoming one-dimensional. They drafted him to essentially compliment this offense not be the cornerstone of it.

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#11 : August 22, 2012, 03:16:12 PM

I hope Martin turns out to be a good player, but in 2012 there's no such thing as a franchise running back. You build around your quarterback or you get a top 5 pick to try again.
What happens to the best running back prospect since AP that the Browns wanted to build a team around? He's already had multiple surgeries and is questionable for the rest of the season. Well put.

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#12 : August 22, 2012, 03:22:12 PM

If you trade up into the first round for any RB, you clearly have planned for this.
We got Martin because our running was becoming one-dimensional. They drafted him to essentially compliment this offense not be the cornerstone of it.

So you trade up to the first for a compliment when solid RB's were available in the 3rd and 4th?  Selling.  Cornerstone to pound the rock and play action to set up shots downfield.

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#13 : August 22, 2012, 03:23:58 PM

Later on maybe, right off the bat, I don't think so.

They need to see if they can build the offense around Freeman first.


I actually think that therein lies the root of our problem the last 3 years.

Freeman is not a QB you build your offense around. He is not a guy who will take an offense on his shoulders and dominate. He is - unfortunately - a guy that we just need to ask to manage the game and not make mistakes. We saw what happened last year when he tried to become Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady - he sucked.

Let's get a running game going with Martin and put Freeman in manageable situations - where he can do the things he did two years ago like scramble and run for first downs, throw the ball away when he has to, and hit those clutch throws for first downs and move the chains. If we think that because we signed Vincent Jackson that suddenly Freeman is going to be stretching the field and opening things up - we will be sorely disappointed. I just do not think he is that QB.




A little early to come to that conclusion IMO.  After this season we will know a lot more.

So.....why exactly did we sign Vjax?

We signed him so other teams will respect our pass game. To let the know, yeah were gonna run this ball down your throat, but second you drop your safeties and fill the box, we'll go over deep and beat you for a touchdown. Football is very much like chess. You have to account for every piece on the board even if the player isn't using them. V-Jax is that deep threat the team will have to always account for.






Agree, that was my point.  The other guy was implying he was a decoy.   And a high priced decoy that would be.


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#14 : August 22, 2012, 03:28:34 PM

If you trade up into the first round for any RB, you clearly have planned for this.
We got Martin because our running was becoming one-dimensional. They drafted him to essentially compliment this offense not be the cornerstone of it.

So you trade up to the first for a compliment when solid RB's were available in the 3rd and 4th?  Selling.  Cornerstone to pound the rock and play action to set up shots downfield.

Not with the versatility and talent's of Martin. And Schiano would never let Martin walk considering how alike he is to Ray Rice. Yeah that'd be great, but what if he gets hurt? Or if the run game gets stuffed and become ineffective? Then you rely on your inexperienced QB who still has developing to do. Wow. Sounds a lot like last year, doesn't it? Or like the Vikings. Or the Browns. None of which happen to be very good teams.
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