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olafberserker

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#90 : September 03, 2012, 09:51:19 AM

Look all this win and they will come is just a load of bs. Two years ago the team finished 10-6 and they started out hot last yr and there were STILL blackouts.   It's all excuses with this town. The Rays are one of the best teams in baseball yet the excuse is, oh no one wants to drive to the Trop. Do you understand what fans in other cities do just to get to games? 

Quit with the excuses or the team is gone. Simple as that.

they started out hot and then the team took off to London for a "home" game so our great owners can make extra $$$$$.  when they returned for an actual home game, they no longer were hot.   Still had 2 sell outs last year.
Many fans in other cities jump on public transportation and relax on the way to the games.   By the way how long have those teams been in those cities?

OK - so they sold out the Monday Night game, and the Saturday night Dallas game.  The Dallas game was half filled with Cowboys by the way.  Why wasn't the first game against the Lions sold out coming off a 10-6 season.  Why wasn't the Falcons game sold out two weeks later? 

And you want to claim that most fans in other cities use public transportation to get there, but you seriously don't know what you're talking about.  Transportation to Giants Stadium for the Jets and Giants from the City?  When you add in the lines and wait times its upwards of an hour minimum each way. 



Ummm, the reason those lines are so long and it could take up to an hour to get out of there is because thousands of people take that option.  There was no problem getting to the stadium.  Even had a beer on the bus over.   I know ..... I've done it.   And since you brought up NY.   There's about 21-22 million people I believe in the area compared to about 4-5 million in Tampa Bay area.   Figure it out


10-6 season .... ha ha     They sold out for over 10 years straight.
: September 03, 2012, 09:58:43 AM olafberserker

csidedave

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#91 : September 03, 2012, 10:55:45 AM

I just think that all of the factors that have been discussed, especially the economy, have led people into a "New Normal".  Even those doing well have learned to be happy with a lot less. We don't stress over material things anymore and are happier than ever.   This is the way it's going to be for the foreseeable future.  Cutting sports tickets out of your budget is  relatively painless. 

I still have mine because they are at a big discount off even today's reduced prices and I am always able to sell half of them at a premium.   But someone wanting to buy 4 endzone tickets today is looking at $300 per month for 10 months on the monthly payment plan.  It's an obvious candidate for a budget cut.
: September 03, 2012, 10:57:21 AM csidedave

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#92 : September 03, 2012, 11:26:45 AM

The Bucs aren't capable of moving for another 10 years or so.
It would be very unusual if the stadium contract didn't have language in it that gave the Bucs an out if the fan base didn't show support for the team.  I believe that is fairly standard language in these type of contracts.  It is easy to see where the Glazers would want to move to LA.....never forget they are all about the money.

That kind of language may fly if he stadium wasn't paid for (oops......still being paid for) by taxpayers.

Can't happen.........looks like someone on PFT was bored as hell and needed a last minute article to meet their deadline.
The agreement is between the stadium authority and the Bucs.  The County Council is also involved.  But the language won't change either way since both sides have to do their part to make it successful.  You could argue that the Glazers have not done enough to make the Bucs successful the last few years, but they can argue that lack of fan support is depriving them of revenue.  Again this is fairly standard language in these types of contracts and it gives both sides an avenue out of the contract.  It may cost the Bucs some money, but a move to a new stadium and city will more than make up for what the buyout would be.  And being the only team that took the 85% option should raise red flags for everyone.  Other teams aren't selling out but they didn't take that option.  If they can argue that they have even gone so far as to lower the threshold for televising the games locally and they still can't get enough support for that then they have a vaild argument.  And the city won't be out the money it took to build the new Bucs practice facility and corporate offices.  The Bucs never spent the money allocated.  This may not happen, but there are indicators that it could.

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2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

watson

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#93 : September 03, 2012, 11:30:24 AM

The Bucs aren't capable of moving for another 10 years or so.
It would be very unusual if the stadium contract didn't have language in it that gave the Bucs an out if the fan base didn't show support for the team.  I believe that is fairly standard language in these type of contracts.  It is easy to see where the Glazers would want to move to LA.....never forget they are all about the money.

That kind of language may fly if he stadium wasn't paid for (oops......still being paid for) by taxpayers.

Can't happen.........looks like someone on PFT was bored as hell and needed a last minute article to meet their deadline.

You would be very surprised what loopholes there are.  There is not a stadium in America today which doesn't have a loop hole to let a team out upon certain conditions - even if paid for by tax payers.
There are not too many "iron clad" contracts anymore.  Especially in the sports world.  Why do you think the players want as much up front money as they can get.  Not too many actually see all the money they sign for in their contracts.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

JohnBuc06

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#94 : September 03, 2012, 01:18:57 PM


I counted 5 "excuses" in this combined about both the Bucs and the Rays.  I will admit that the economy is an extremely fair point.  But at the same time, why is that not affecting attendance in Detroit, Cleveland, Cincy.  Why is it not affecting Pittsburgh, or Green Bay.  All places that have been hit just as hard, if not worse, than the Tampa area.

My point is that until "fans" stop trying to find reasons on why not to go, and actually just go, the relocation talk is just going to grow louder and louder.

I'm sorry, but using those cities in comparison against the Buc's doesn't work ...its apples and oranges.  You are talking about franchises that are over 60-70 (excluding Cincy) years old, have built generations of fans, against one that is a little over 30, was horrendous for over half of those years, in a city that over half the population (if not more) are transplants from the regions you are referencing.  Those teams (again excluding Cincy) also had periods of sustained success to build up those fan bases (Cleveland and Detroit in the 40's, 50's, 60's, Pittsburgh 70's, Green Bay forever).  Heck even Cincy got a good start as it was founded by Paul Brown who was a god in Ohio.  And that's NOT even including there are a lot more options to spend any extra income in Tampa (and FL in general when looking at any FL based franchise) than in locations like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. 

I always said the Glazer's big mistake was thinking the run of 7 or so years of a competitive, playoff challenging team (roughly 97-2004) was enough to build a passionate fan base and start price gouging the customers while not putting any real money into the product on the field.  For the "fair-weather" fans that had no long term ties to the area/team they simply went back to rooting for their "hometown" team or the various "America's team" that the media pushes on TV every week.  For us long term fans who have been around since the 70's and 80's we recognized the Glazer's cheap attempt to run the franchise (again from roughly 2004/2005 till this year) as it was reminiscent to the Culverhouse ownership.  The icing on the cake was the hiring of Raheem and the complete lack of financial support the past 4-5 years.  Any goodwill they built up was gone.  They need to show a constant commitment to this franchise over the long haul, reach out to those fair weather fans and give them a reason to attend these games over an extended period of time - which means entertaining COMPETITIVE games (NOTE not always winning, but competitive with a belief they CAN win).  Understand you will have down years here and there as you roll over players and coaches but there has to be a belief that you're trying to get better - that has not been with this team for a while.  They need to play some competitive football for a couple of years - the fans will start to come back - then sustain that feeling for the next decade or so - let a generation of young fans in the area grow up Buccaneer fans, not Cowboys or Packers or whatever cause "that's where Daddy is from".  Then you can have a passionate fan base that would support the team during those occasional lean years.

: September 03, 2012, 01:22:02 PM JohnBuc06

olafberserker

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#95 : September 03, 2012, 02:32:56 PM

Nicely said John ....

ABuc99

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#96 : September 03, 2012, 08:43:52 PM

4 winning seasons since the SB season a decade ago and only two playoff appearances and no advancement will of course not bring out the fans.

Unless this team turns into a constant playoff threat, the fans won't come.

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#97 : September 04, 2012, 09:03:42 AM

To all the posters who point out 'there are loopholes in the lease agreement'.

I can't help but think that if the Glazers were to up and leave in the middle of the night (Irsay-style), that would set a very dangerous precedent for all future proposed taxpayer-paid stadiums.

I, for one, would strongly object to increasing a sales tax for a stadium if I knew there was even a slight chance for the team that's primarily playing in it to leave well before the agreed-to lease expires.


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#98 : September 04, 2012, 09:41:28 AM

Late to the party, but I will address this!  The Buccaneers will NEVER leave the Tampa Bay area.  In the agreement to build Ray Jay back in the late 90's the Glazers signed a 30 year lease with the city of Tampa  The Glazers would suffer severe penalties if they tried to move the team.

Plus the taxpayers of Hillsborough County paid for the stadium and this would cause some serious litigation for the Glazers if they attempted to do so.  The Tampa Bay Sports Authority run the stadium.  The Glazers may eventually sell the team, but the team will never be moved.  The Buccaneers may be suffering low attendence right now, but they're still the most profitable team in the state of Florida so the NFL would never ever allow it.


10lbbass

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#99 : September 04, 2012, 10:00:20 AM

Can we delete this thread?  Win, tickets will sell, simple as that.  Schiano is a winner! 

RHBucsFan

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#100 : September 04, 2012, 10:15:36 AM

Glazers have been pissing on fans for almost a decade. They haven't put a good product on the field since the superbowl era due directly to their lack of spending. We have not had a superstar on this team since Sapp/Brooks and co. Season tickets holders signed a 10 year seat deposit and then were held hostage while they watched a team get less and less resources. They hired an inexperienced coach and then took away his coordinators. This place was becoming a circus.

You guys expect the fans to forget ALL of this in a single off-season? Yes they signed Nix and V Jacks and brought in a new coach. One offseason does not erase a decade of ineptitude to most people. Don't agree with me? Ask the empty seats.

I'll be at the game this weekend. I'm more forgiving than most. I love football more than most. But honestly, I can't blame the fans for not showing up one bit. I understand why.

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#101 : September 04, 2012, 10:18:01 AM

Late to the party, but I will address this!  The Buccaneers will NEVER leave the Tampa Bay area.  In the agreement to build Ray Jay back in the late 90's the Glazers signed a 30 year lease with the city of Tampa  The Glazers would suffer severe penalties if they tried to move the team.

Plus the taxpayers of Hillsborough County paid for the stadium and this would cause some serious litigation for the Glazers if they attempted to do so.  The Tampa Bay Sports Authority run the stadium.  The Glazers may eventually sell the team, but the team will never be moved.  The Buccaneers may be suffering low attendence right now, but they're still the most profitable team in the state of Florida so the NFL would never ever allow it.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


.....anything else you hear is just fear-mongering.....btw, piss-poor journalism at PFT on this issue.


Morgan

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#102 : September 04, 2012, 10:24:56 AM

Anyone find it ironic that the Bucs promote a ticket re-sale service along w/ Stubhub? These two services are in direct competition with its own first time ticket sales.  Probably doesn't make a big difference in the total sale, or maybe it does?  It seems that with every ticket it re-sells, they lose a potential seat being occupied at RJS.

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#103 : September 04, 2012, 10:45:37 AM

Morgan, I thought the same thing. The group I'm going to opening day with quite a few got their tickets off stubhub, and I thought is the team selling tickets thru this avenue as well, and aren't they hurting a potential blackout by promoting Stubhub and the NFL ticket exchange?

I doubt it gets sold out, with so many tickets left and such little time. It really is counter productive to try to expose your product to potential fans but black the game out but I also understand the NFL's stance at trying to maximize profits for their owners. Besides watching games of a half empty stadium is not visually appealing.

It's the fans who truly lose out. Still frustrating that the fans can't turn out for the 85% rule to lift the blackout. Where are the Buc sponsors at to help lift this blackout?

Formerly known as T

 I\'ll be optimistic until I see a reason not to be

Bucko40

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#104 : September 04, 2012, 10:47:10 AM

As in any sport, winning brings in the Fans. The Glazers must accept some of the blame for the attendance. For several years they have chosen to reign in the spending and expect the fans to accept it. One off-season of spending is good but they still have much to prove. The Team on the field has to back it up also and be more competitive. Hopefully fans will comeback and this kind of talk will dissipate.
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