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BucBalla85

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#75 : September 05, 2012, 03:23:25 PM

Think about this. He goes from Lumpkin to Martin. Martin can actually run the ball and can make plays catching it. Lumpkin didnt run well and didnt make plays when he caught the ball. How much does that help your QB out??

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#76 : September 05, 2012, 03:23:34 PM

Motha**CENSORED**in LUMPKIN!

 It's a fact that once Graham went down this offense went to pot.
That would explain a lot. Lmao!


Our offense was arguably better with Graham.Once the old man went down,on went the 10 game losing streak.

Freeman has improved and I was wrong about him.

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#77 : September 05, 2012, 03:23:45 PM

I need a man hug.

Freeman has improved and I was wrong about him.

BucBalla85

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#78 : September 05, 2012, 03:27:34 PM

Motha**CENSORED**in LUMPKIN!

 It's a fact that once Graham went down this offense went to pot.
That would explain a lot. Lmao!


Our offense was arguably better with Graham.Once the old man went down,on went the 10 game losing streak.

Not arguably. Was better. Graham could actually make plays. Lumpkin made one or two the whole time he was in there.

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#79 : September 05, 2012, 03:29:41 PM

 As long as the offense doesn't go to coke I am cool with it.  :D

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#80 : September 05, 2012, 03:30:04 PM


" Lumpkin will go down in history as a comparable player to the likes of Todd Steussie,Tim Brown,Bert Emanuel and Dwayne Rudd etc,etc "

Tim Brown is likely headed for the HoF. And he was right, Tampa fans are effin' clueless.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

TBayXXXVII

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#81 : September 05, 2012, 03:34:47 PM

This thread will look silly if Freeman blows up this year with a lot of weapons around him and a competent coaching staff.

No it won't.  These are all current, legitimate statements based on past performances.  When the data changes, the outlook changes.

BucBalla85

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#82 : September 05, 2012, 03:35:36 PM


" Lumpkin will go down in history as a comparable player to the likes of Todd Steussie,Tim Brown,Bert Emanuel and Dwayne Rudd etc,etc "

Tim Brown is likely headed for the HoF. And he was right, Tampa fans are effin' clueless.

Who said that? Lumpkin is easily worse than any of those guys as TB players.

BucNY

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#83 : September 05, 2012, 03:41:53 PM

Fan confidence in Josh Freeman appears to be at an all time low.....according to my fantasy football draft........Oh brother. I've already wasted to much on time on this thread.

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#84 : September 05, 2012, 03:44:09 PM

A question I have for the Freeman doubters. Who did Freeman have last year as a weapon? K2?? Dude is on his way out of the league. Williams? Barely got open with the double teams. Benn? Was barely on the field. Who did he have at RB to dump the ball off to when the pressure came?? It was Graham and he did a fine job at it and even got us first downs like he is supposed to. Who did we have to replace him. Motha**CENSORED**in LUMPKIN! Yea hes the guy you want to dump the ball off to. Hes got the weapons now to at the very least have an average season. If he takes care of the ball he can really have a great season again. I think he can do it. GO BUCS!!

This has been addressed over and over again.  People rag on Alex Smith and think he's terrible yet, he hasn't had anything special to work with, plus he's had 6 different OC's in 7 years!  Eli has had mid / late round targets that are now Pro Bowlers.  Is that the GM's fault or is it that Eli is making them look that good?  Steve Smith in New York had a 100 catch season with Eli and hasn't done anything since he left.  What has Brees had?  First round bust Meachum... 7th round Colston, 7th round Moore?  Yet, he seems to be the best QB in the league.  Before Gronkowski, Brady never had anyone... yet he turned Deion Branch and Wes Welker into Pro Bowlers.  Good QB's make his teammates better.  That is a proven fact since the 60's.  Everyone in Tampa has regressed over the last 3 years to the point where most guys are no longer here!

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#85 : September 05, 2012, 03:44:36 PM

Freeman was at his best in 2010 when Caddy was the 3rd down back and assisted with calling out blocking assignments. Freeman in 2011 was at his best with Graham as his 3rd down back and assisted with calling out blocking assignments. The difference in 2012 is that while I have full confidence in Martin running and catching the ball on 3rd down, he's a rookie so how quickly he picks up blocking & blitz assignments will play a huge factor in Freeman's success.

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#86 : September 05, 2012, 03:51:23 PM


No chance of Freeman ever doing that job himself, like other QBs do?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#87 : September 05, 2012, 03:53:38 PM

A question I have for the Freeman doubters. Who did Freeman have last year as a weapon? K2?? Dude is on his way out of the league. Williams? Barely got open with the double teams. Benn? Was barely on the field. Who did he have at RB to dump the ball off to when the pressure came?? It was Graham and he did a fine job at it and even got us first downs like he is supposed to. Who did we have to replace him. Motha**CENSORED**in LUMPKIN! Yea hes the guy you want to dump the ball off to. Hes got the weapons now to at the very least have an average season. If he takes care of the ball he can really have a great season again. I think he can do it. GO BUCS!!

This has been addressed over and over again.  People rag on Alex Smith and think he's terrible yet, he hasn't had anything special to work with, plus he's had 6 different OC's in 7 years!  Eli has had mid / late round targets that are now Pro Bowlers.  Is that the GM's fault or is it that Eli is making them look that good?  Steve Smith in New York had a 100 catch season with Eli and hasn't done anything since he left.  What has Brees had?  First round bust Meachum... 7th round Colston, 7th round Moore?  Yet, he seems to be the best QB in the league.  Before Gronkowski, Brady never had anyone... yet he turned Deion Branch and Wes Welker into Pro Bowlers.  Good QB's make his teammates better.  That is a proven fact since the 60's.  Everyone in Tampa has regressed over the last 3 years to the point where most guys are no longer here!

Yes but you just named 3 future Hall of Famers. That's the difference. They're not just good. They're great. That's the difference between them and second tier players like Freeman, Flacco, and Ryan perhaps. And there are so many other factors that made those teams great. You can't base it solely on the QB-WR relationship. And Freeman until this year hasn't anything great to work with either just like Smith. They're in the same boat and both of them are not expected to run an offense. They need help from the Defense and Run game. Neither of which Josh had last year.

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#88 : September 05, 2012, 03:59:23 PM

A question I have for the Freeman doubters. Who did Freeman have last year as a weapon? K2?? Dude is on his way out of the league. Williams? Barely got open with the double teams. Benn? Was barely on the field. Who did he have at RB to dump the ball off to when the pressure came?? It was Graham and he did a fine job at it and even got us first downs like he is supposed to. Who did we have to replace him. Motha**CENSORED**in LUMPKIN! Yea hes the guy you want to dump the ball off to. Hes got the weapons now to at the very least have an average season. If he takes care of the ball he can really have a great season again. I think he can do it. GO BUCS!!

This has been addressed over and over again.  People rag on Alex Smith and think he's terrible yet, he hasn't had anything special to work with, plus he's had 6 different OC's in 7 years!  Eli has had mid / late round targets that are now Pro Bowlers.  Is that the GM's fault or is it that Eli is making them look that good?  Steve Smith in New York had a 100 catch season with Eli and hasn't done anything since he left.  What has Brees had?  First round bust Meachum... 7th round Colston, 7th round Moore?  Yet, he seems to be the best QB in the league.  Before Gronkowski, Brady never had anyone... yet he turned Deion Branch and Wes Welker into Pro Bowlers.  Good QB's make his teammates better.  That is a proven fact since the 60's.  Everyone in Tampa has regressed over the last 3 years to the point where most guys are no longer here!

Thats fine. In fact Ive said before that Freeman is not a "great" QB. "Great" QBs know how to get by without anybody around them. Freeman is not a great QB though. Hes not a guy who can do it by himself. I dont expect him to be a guy to do it by himself. This is a team game. Guys who can do it by themselves are a dime a dozen. You better be picking in the top 5 to get a guy like that. We should know by now that Freeman isnt an Elite guy so we should stop treating him like he is. Freeman needs help and last year he had none. This year they gave him some help. I expect him to play much better now.

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#89 : September 05, 2012, 04:02:28 PM

Speaking as a long time Buc fan I desperately want Freeman to succeed, and I can see where he does have the talent to do so ....but I've sat through Jack Thompson, Jerry Goldstein, Vinny Testeverde, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson, Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, Chris Simms, and Bruce Gronkoski (sp?) to temper any excitement I have for our QB ...at one point or another all those QB's burned us with flashes of looking good only to fall back to mediocre mode.  And that doesn't even include all the QB's that have played a game here or there for us.  So if we as Buc fan's are a little unsettled on Freeman after one good year followed up by one bad year ...lets face it that's in our DNA.

(FYI I know I left some names off of that list - Williams, DeBerg, Young, Johnson, etc ...but I feel those were actually good QB's for us when they were here).
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