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nitey

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: September 03, 2012, 09:54:09 AM


             2012
   1   1   7   7   Mark Barron    DB   * Starter
    2   1   31   31   Doug Martin    RB   * Starter
    3   2   26   58   Lavonte David    LB   * Starter
    4   5   5   140   Najee Goode    LB   Reserve
    5   6   4   174   Keith Tandy    DB   Reserve
    6   7   5   212   Michael Smith    RB   Reserve
    7   7   26   233   Drake Dunsmore TE   Practice Squad
   2011   
   1   1   20   20   Adrian ClaybornDE   * Starter
    2   2   19   51   Da'Quan Bowers DE   * Starter IR
    3   3   20   84   Mason Foster    LB   * Starter
    4   4   7   104   Luke Stocker    TE   Reserve
    5   5   20   151   Ahmad Black    DB   Reserve
    6   6   22   187   Allen Bradford RB   - Gone
    7   7   19   222   Anthony Gaitor DB   Reserve
    8   7   35   238   Daniel Hard    TE   - Gone
   2010   
   1   1   3   3   Gerald McCoy    DT   * Starter
    2   2   3   35   Brian Price    DT   - Gone
    3   2   7   39   Arrelious Benn WR   Reserve
    4   3   3   67   Myron Lewis    DB   Reserve
    5   4   3   101   Mike Williams    WR   * Starter
    6   6   3   172   Brent Bowden    P   - Gone
    7   7   3   210   Cody Grim    DB   Reserve
    8   7   10   217   Dekoda Watson    LB   Reserve
    9   7   46   253   Erik Lorig    DE   * Starter
   2009   
   1   1   17   17   Josh Freeman    QB   * Starter
    2   3   17   81   Roy Miller    DT   * Starter
    3   4   17   117   Kyle Moore    DE   - Gone
    4   5   19   155   Xavier Fulton    T   - Gone
    5   7   8   217   E.J. Biggers    DB   Reserve
    6   7   24   233   Sammie StroughterWR   Reserve


Of his 30 picks, only 5 are not on the roster, 11 are current starters (Bowers is on IR), and the rest are on the team as reserves.
While anyone can point out in retrospect that they should have choosen this or that player instead of the one we drafted,
the result is that the bulk of the team is still made up of draft choices by Dominik.

We haven't drafted as bad as a lot of folks have made out. In fact, this years draft has the potential to be as good as that
Brooks/Sapp draft with Barron/Martin and David.

Yes, this team still has talent gaps and you can knock Dom for not drafting enough offensive linemen over the last 4 years
and that two of his high defensive line picks didn't pan out, but a large amount of his picks are starting.
 
The fact is, 80%+ of his picks are still on the roster today. That's not a bad batting average. Certainly better than what we
had here since about 2000 to 2008.

The truth is that Dom inherited a old roster from Gruden, and clearly the Glazers wanted to move in a different more youthful direction.

All things considered, I don't think he's done a bad job overall. Everyone can quibble over whether we made the right picks
but the fact of the matter is that I believe Schiano had the choice to keep or cut anyone on the roster and he still held on to most
of our prior picks.

JMO.

[Sorry for the formatting, I got it about the best it was going to be]

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

1sparkybuc

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#1 : September 03, 2012, 10:07:43 AM

Your use of common sense and logic is refreshing for this board. Thank you. It's a nice change from some of the blithering idiots who post here.Tebow etc..

muvlodge

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#2 : September 03, 2012, 10:12:31 AM

Your use of common sense and logic is refreshing for this board. Thank you. It's a nice change from some of the blithering idiots who post here.Tebow etc..


+1

Buc7

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#3 : September 03, 2012, 10:17:20 AM

I get your point. I believe  the best way to judge a team draft picks are by their production on the field. Since Dominick has been G.M. he has in my opinion done a decent job with his picks and a sucky job with free agency. Some say you have to wait at least 3 years to determin if a draft is a success. This is year four since he has taken the helm. Its put up or shut up time for him. Good post tho.

BucD

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#4 : September 03, 2012, 10:20:09 AM

Your use of common sense and logic is refreshing for this board. Thank you. It's a nice change from some of the blithering idiots who post here.Tebow etc..

+1

and same to the OP...good thread...

OKC PAC

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#5 : September 03, 2012, 10:28:03 AM

I could careless if he has drafted starters for on of the worst teams in NFL history.  The bottom line is most these guys starting would be backup's or cuts on other teams.  This draft class looks promising but its waaaaaaaay to early to tell so take that out of the equation and were left with the following "STARTERS"

Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player.
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams

That gives us what ONE guy in clayborn that has PRO BOWL potential?  The rest of the guys aren't anything special hence why this team is lacking in talent.  If you think Dom's drafts have been good based on them starting for this team then you need to go watch film the past 3 seasons.  We can't compete with the big boys in the NFL and our defense where DOM has drafted an entire D-line and most the LB core rank dead last in the league in total defense, and run defense.

Bring back GRUDEN!!!

TBChucky

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#6 : September 03, 2012, 10:39:16 AM

I have been a Dominik supporter, but one can easily argue that most of his drafted starters are only starting because the sorry state of the team the past three seasons. you can say that only Williams, Clayborn, and Freeman have given any significant return on their investment. I think this years draft will end up being special, but we are a few seasons away from knowing. IMO Dominik needs solid contribution from his players of previous drafts THIS season, or he may be unemployed..


lyronmewis

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#7 : September 03, 2012, 10:44:24 AM

I'd say middle of the pack. If you look around the league, there's some teams that are much worse at drafting.

bucinnj

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#8 : September 03, 2012, 10:47:38 AM

The bottom line is most these guys starting would be backup's or cuts on other teams. 

Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential.  HAD NO OFFSEASON COACHING LAST YEAR....COULD BE EVEN BETTER THIS SEASON.
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player....... HIGH RISK PICK THAT NEEDS TO STAY HEALTHY IN ORDER TO STICK AROUND.
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL....GIVEN A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY TO HANDLE ESPECIALLY WITH NO OFFSEASON LAST YEAR.....EXPECTING BETTER PRODUCTION THIS YEAR.
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST.....THE CLOCK IS TICKING, HE'S GOT TO STAY HEALTHY.
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1....TOTALLY AGREE.  PRESENCE OF VJAX WILL HELP IN MANY WAYS.
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams..ENOUGH SAID.
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well...ANOTHER ONE WITH CLOCK TICKING IN BACKGROUND.  NEEDS A SOLID YEAR.
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams....FRINGE GUY AT BEST.

The rest of the guys aren't anything special hence why this team is lacking in talent.  We can't compete with the big boys in the NFL and our defense where DOM has drafted an entire D-line and most the LB core rank dead last in the league in total defense, and run defense.

Totally agree.  IF Barron, Martin and David are solid contributors then the future looks bright.  A return to relevance will be severely delayed if we have trouble with these three players as well.

Turn the page.

dbrooks55

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#9 : September 03, 2012, 10:54:11 AM

I could careless if he has drafted starters for on of the worst teams in NFL history.  The bottom line is most these guys starting would be backup's or cuts on other teams.  This draft class looks promising but its waaaaaaaay to early to tell so take that out of the equation and were left with the following "STARTERS"

Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player.
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams

That gives us what ONE guy in clayborn that has PRO BOWL potential?  The rest of the guys aren't anything special hence why this team is lacking in talent.  If you think Dom's drafts have been good based on them starting for this team then you need to go watch film the past 3 seasons.  We can't compete with the big boys in the NFL and our defense where DOM has drafted an entire D-line and most the LB core rank dead last in the league in total defense, and run defense.

I blame it more on the coach than Dominik, Raheem coach a bunch of underachievers last year. Schaino looks to be a coach that will get the most out of his players. Raheem just didn't know what he was doing. I personally think our 2 1st rounders are potential pro bowlers, maybe not this season but we will see. I'll give Dominik a couple more years. He kinda reminds me of Mike Shanahan when the Raiders hired him coach. A little inexperienced but a ton of potential, the Raiders were dumb to let him go. Hopefully the Bucs will be patient.

OKC PAC

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#10 : September 03, 2012, 11:00:33 AM

I could careless if he has drafted starters for on of the worst teams in NFL history.  The bottom line is most these guys starting would be backup's or cuts on other teams.  This draft class looks promising but its waaaaaaaay to early to tell so take that out of the equation and were left with the following "STARTERS"

Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player.
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams

That gives us what ONE guy in clayborn that has PRO BOWL potential?  The rest of the guys aren't anything special hence why this team is lacking in talent.  If you think Dom's drafts have been good based on them starting for this team then you need to go watch film the past 3 seasons.  We can't compete with the big boys in the NFL and our defense where DOM has drafted an entire D-line and most the LB core rank dead last in the league in total defense, and run defense.

I blame it more on the coach than Dominik, Raheem coach a bunch of underachievers last year. Schaino looks to be a coach that will get the most out of his players. Raheem just didn't know what he was doing. I personally think our 2 1st rounders are potential pro bowlers, maybe not this season but we will see. I'll give Dominik a couple more years. He kinda reminds me of Mike Shanahan when the Raiders hired him coach. A little inexperienced but a ton of potential, the Raiders were dumb to let him go. Hopefully the Bucs will be patient.
I agree Morris was the worse coach in NFL history.  WIth that said the pressure is on DOM to produce an all-pro type player here shortly.  Heck Gruden/Allen were able to produce a ROY in Cadillac, all-pro offensive guard in Davin, all-pro potential CB in Talib (if his head gets on straight) and as much as i liked Gruden/Allen their drafts were garbage as well.

Bring back GRUDEN!!!

SHIVVER

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#11 : September 03, 2012, 11:01:55 AM

Nice post Nitey.....  Building a franchise through the draft if a long process...  Time will tell if Dom is better than average....


Rusty

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#12 : September 03, 2012, 11:14:19 AM

Hey Yucc, as the resident data analysis guru, do you know of any sites that do a side by side, team by team comparison of rating drafts over a 5 to 10 year period? If you look at the 10-6 season & 4-2 start last year, the drafts look promising. When you then put it in the perspective of the 10 game slide into hell and this years obvious pre season with ZERO depth, it looks horrible.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

big_JLB

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#13 : September 03, 2012, 11:14:47 AM

I could careless if he has drafted starters for on of the worst teams in NFL history.  The bottom line is most these guys starting would be backup's or cuts on other teams.  This draft class looks promising but its waaaaaaaay to early to tell so take that out of the equation and were left with the following "STARTERS"

Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player.
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams

That gives us what ONE guy in clayborn that has PRO BOWL potential?  The rest of the guys aren't anything special hence why this team is lacking in talent.  If you think Dom's drafts have been good based on them starting for this team then you need to go watch film the past 3 seasons.  We can't compete with the big boys in the NFL and our defense where DOM has drafted an entire D-line and most the LB core rank dead last in the league in total defense, and run defense.

2004:
1   Michael Clayton   WR   LSU   
3   Marquise Cooper   LB   Washington   
4   Will Allen   S   Ohio State   
5   Jeb Terry   G   North Carolina   
6   Nate Lawrie   TE   Yale   
7   Mark Jones   WR   Tennessee   
7   Casey Cramer   FB   Dartmouth   
7   Lenny Williams   CB   Southern   

8 picks...nothing
2005:
1   Carnell Williams   RB   Auburn   
2   Barrett Ruud   LB   Nebraska   
3   Alex Smith   TE   Stanford   
3   Chris Colmer   T   N.C. State   
4   Dan Buenning   G   Wisconsin   
5   Donte Nicholson   S   Oklahoma   
5   Larry Brackins   WR   P.R.C.C.   
6   Anthony Bryant   DT   Alabama   
7   Rick Razzano   FB   Mississippi   
7   Paris Warren   WR   Utah   
7   Hamza Abdullah   S   Wash. St.   
7   J.R. Russell   WR   Louisville   

12 picks...squat
2006:
1   Davin Joseph   G   Oklahoma   
2   Jeremy Trueblood   T   BC   
3   Maurice Stovall   WR   N. Dame   
4   Alan Zemaitis   CB   Penn State   
5   Julian Jenkins   DE   Stanford   
6   Bruce Gradkowski   QB   Tol.   
6   T.J. Williams   TE   NC State   
7   Justin Phinisee   CB   Oregon   
7   Charles Bennett   DE   Clemson   
7   Tim Massaquoi   TE   Michigan   

10 picks...allen's 3rd draft and the first one that their players are still on the current roster
2007:
1   Gaines Adams   DE   Clemson   
2   Arron Sears   G   Tennessee   
2   Sabby Piscitelli   S   Oregon State   
3   Quincy Black   LB   New Mexico   
4   Tanard Jackson   S   Syracuse   
5   Greg Peterson   DT   North Carolina Central   
1   Adam Hayward   LB   Portland State   
7   Chris Henman   T   Fresno State   
7   Marcus Hamilton   CB   Virginia   
7   Kenneth Darby   RB   Alabama   

10 picks...2 players on the current roster
2008:
1   Aqib Talib   CB   Kansas   
2   Dexter Jackson   WR   Appalachian State   
3   Jeremy Zuttah   G   Rutgers   
4   Dre Moore   DT   Maryland   
5   Josh Johnson   QB   San Diego   
6   Geno Hayes   LB   Florida State   
7   Cory Boyd   RB   South Carolina   

7 picks...2 picks on the current roster

dom has had 30 picks, and considering he inherited a roster with ZERO depth due to the pathetic drafting from 2004-2008 (gru/allen had 47 draft picks, 6 are on the current roster. thats not even 13%) dom has had to COMPLETELY rebuild nearly 87% of this roster. 30 picks is barely enough to have a starting 22 and quality backups at each position. obviously the depth is going to be suspect. a lot of his draft picks are here which is a good thing as they should eventually become depth as better players are brought in with more draft classes.


dom's starters:
Clayborn:  Very solid starter and has pro bowl potential...agree, one of dom's best picks
Bowers:  Hasn't done anything impressive considering he's been injured...Bennett is a better player....i'll give him more time because it was known that the knee could be a problem. it was a gamble, yes. but if he brings the pass rush it will be a great pick
Foster:  Below average MLB in the NFL...i think putting him in the middle was a bonehead move. dude played OLB in college and then you throw him into the fire at a new position with no offseason. i think he would be a lot better if they moved him outside
McCoy:  Injured and needs to step up this season otherwise he's a HUGE BUST...haven't given up on him yet, he knows that he has to put up or shut up
Mike WIlliams:  Solid number 2 WR but not a true number 1...i'll take his production from a 4th round pick. and i think he's primed for a big year
Lorig:  Below average FB and wouldn't start on most teams...yeah, would prefer a bruiser at FB, couldn't care less about lorig
Josh Freeman:  One good season in his first 3 seasons...another bad season and he will be a bust as well...make or break. the table is set
Roy Miller:  Backup quality DT that wouldn't start on most teams...would rather gibson start, to be honest. at least he gets some disruption
+david, martin, barron

he's building the roster from the bottom up. if anything its been the inactivity in free agency (until this past offseason) thats been the problem. FA's are for putting a team over the top, or if a player somehow makes it to free agency in their prime. but its all on freeman and mccoy though. those two are the keys to everything. 
: September 03, 2012, 11:23:14 AM big_jlb


ryan24

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#14 : September 03, 2012, 11:16:17 AM

The starters drafted are starters on a really poor team. That's pretty bad way to look at things. He hasn't drafted a ton of quality. That's the bottom line.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.
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