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wilkes

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#15 : September 03, 2012, 11:18:19 AM

The situation the Bucs are in for the last decade is the risk verses reward and the price to pay back. Due to the Keyshawn and Jon Gruden trades, we got a Super Bowl. The outcome after the "Ring" was an overpriced roster deprived of young draftees capable of probowl potential. Then in desperation, the drafts were filled by necessity. Everybody knows this. Most of would not change a thing.

As far as Dominics's drafts, I believe his drafts are on par with the rest of the league. Comparing him with the Eagles and Pats of the league is not realistic. Other teams over compensate in trades for players that the no longer need. Additionally they are over compensated by the league for players that are allowed to walk. This allows them to keep their rosters strong by having many more high draft picks. Veterans also go there at discounts. They can always draft best player available. With that said I bet they do not have any better drafting success rates than Dominic. It is just an illusion since teams like the Bucs can't mask any failures.

Subpar coaching, discipline and development the last few years is making our draftees look worse than they actually are.

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#16 : September 03, 2012, 11:20:28 AM

Man, that's depressing. When you ssee the draft history from Allen and the fact that 6/7 of this years starter will leave next year plus Zero depth, the cupbord sure looks bare.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

smove28

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#17 : September 03, 2012, 11:22:11 AM

The starters drafted are starters on a really poor team. That's pretty bad way to look at things. He hasn't drafted a ton of quality. That's the bottom line.

We have a winner ^^^^^^^ Thank you Ryan 24, next topic please

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#18 : September 03, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

The starters drafted are starters on a really poor team. That's pretty bad way to look at things. He hasn't drafted a ton of quality. That's the bottom line.

they're starters out of necessity. when you have to rebuild 80% or more of a roster that's been completely gutted the players that would normally be depth on good teams absolutely have to play because the guys behind them stink even more. the more drafts dom has the further down the depth chart the current starters go. i dont know how its such a difficult concept to understand. we can argue about whether or not we think dom has hit on his high picks, and its a matter of opinion. i think the foundation is there, and its all on mccoy and freeman now...they're what dom's tenure as GM is riding on. all these players that dom has drafted that are playing out of necessity are being exposed for what they are, not starting material. it takes time to accumulate top-end talent at every position
: September 03, 2012, 11:35:17 AM big_jlb


big_JLB

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#19 : September 03, 2012, 11:34:38 AM

The situation the Bucs are in for the last decade is the risk verses reward and the price to pay back. Due to the Keyshawn and Jon Gruden trades, we got a Super Bowl. The outcome after the "Ring" was an overpriced roster deprived of young draftees capable of probowl potential. Then in desperation, the drafts were filled by necessity. Everybody knows this. Most of would not change a thing.

As far as Dominics's drafts, I believe his drafts are on par with the rest of the league. Comparing him with the Eagles and Pats of the league is not realistic. Other teams over compensate in trades for players that the no longer need. Additionally they are over compensated by the league for players that are allowed to walk. This allows them to keep their rosters strong by having many more high draft picks. Veterans also go there at discounts. They can always draft best player available. With that said I bet they do not have any better drafting success rates than Dominic. It is just an illusion since teams like the Bucs can't mask any failures.

Subpar coaching, discipline and development the last few years is making our draftees look worse than they actually are.


+1


BucBalla85

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#20 : September 03, 2012, 12:04:45 PM

We're getting better too. The object is to get better as a team. I think overall this team is Doms best team so far. He's learning too because look at the additions to the team this season. Easily we're our biggest weaknesses. We needed a rb who could do it all we traded back in the first to get Martin. We needed a safety who could cover and tackle well in the box. We got Barron. We needed to upgrade the oline went and got the best guard on the market in Nicks. We needed a legit #1 WR in Jackson. We needed to upgrade the LB we traded up to get David. Honestly with the depth looking like crap the next step would be to get rid of it and improve it. We've seen lots of surprising cuts, that's because he's cleaning house. It means he knows he made mistakes with those guys and they didn't fit the team so he got rid of them. Hes learning and getting better. The depth we had was crap but at least he is trying to fix it. It would be quite another thing had he left these less than mediocre guys on the team and acted like they belong. If this team wins games this year and these new guys are big parts of it, we will be talking about Dominik as a solid GM. And rightfully so too.

Skull and Bones

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#21 : September 03, 2012, 02:53:14 PM

That's like saying Dom is a good drafter because Myron Lewis is still on the roster.


BuccaneersMagic1282

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#22 : September 03, 2012, 03:09:20 PM

Who cares how many are starters and still on the team? The only thing that matters is how good a player someone is, and Dominik has yet to draft a Pro Bowler or a guy you'd consider near the top at his position. Sure, it can take time to develop but this is his 4th year, in today's NFL that is long enough. Normally you can tell you have a stud within a year or two. So far, of all of the players Dom has drafted (excluding this year), only one has shown some sort of Pro Bowl potential, and that is Clayborn, and I'm not sure he'll end up being THAT good.

I'm tired of 7th round picks not only consistently making our roster, but playing major roles on our team. You can sit here and tell me that shows good Dom is, but in reality, it just means our team sucks so much we actually expect 7th rounders to contribute. I was talking with a Packers fan today about one of their 7th rounders and he said that the played looked solid, but it takes more than solid to make our team as a 7th round pick. While down here, as long as you don't look completly miserable you'll probably get to make the team and even play snaps. I'm amazed that Sammie Stroughter continues to stick, a 7th round pick who has shown minimal ability continues to make our team every damn year. EJ Biggers is a below average CB taken in the 7th round, but he continues to stick. Making our pathetic roster isn't an accomplishment. We need some real studs on this team, the only ones we have are guys we paid top dollar for in FA. Dom should be on the hot seat, because after 4 years I really don't feel we are that much better off than we were in 2008. We're way younger, but we still have no stud players to market the team around and win us games.

big_JLB

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#23 : September 03, 2012, 05:12:39 PM

Who cares how many are starters and still on the team? The only thing that matters is how good a player someone is, and Dominik has yet to draft a Pro Bowler or a guy you'd consider near the top at his position. Sure, it can take time to develop but this is his 4th year, in today's NFL that is long enough. Normally you can tell you have a stud within a year or two. (thats the exception, not the norm) So far, of all of the players Dom has drafted (excluding this year), only one has shown some sort of Pro Bowl potential, and that is Clayborn, and I'm not sure he'll end up being THAT good.

I'm tired of 7th round picks not only consistently making our roster, but playing major roles on our team. You can sit here and tell me that shows good Dom is, but in reality, it just means our team sucks so much we actually expect 7th rounders to contribute. I was talking with a Packers fan today about one of their 7th rounders and he said that the played looked solid, but it takes more than solid to make our team as a 7th round pick. While down here, as long as you don't look completly miserable you'll probably get to make the team and even play snaps. I'm amazed that Sammie Stroughter continues to stick, a 7th round pick who has shown minimal ability continues to make our team every damn year. EJ Biggers is a below average CB taken in the 7th round, but he continues to stick. Making our pathetic roster isn't an accomplishment. We need some real studs on this team, the only ones we have are guys we paid top dollar for in FA. Dom should be on the hot seat, because after 4 years I really don't feel we are that much better off than we were in 2008. We're way younger, but we still have no stud players to market the team around and win us games.

they're starters out of necessity. when you have to rebuild 80% or more of a roster that's been completely gutted the players that would normally be depth on good teams absolutely have to play because the guys behind them stink even more. the more drafts dom has the further down the depth chart the current starters go. i dont know how its such a difficult concept to understand. we can argue about whether or not we think dom has hit on his high picks, and its a matter of opinion. i think the foundation is there, and its all on mccoy and freeman now...they're what dom's tenure as GM is riding on. all these players that dom has drafted that are playing out of necessity are being exposed for what they are, not starting material. it takes time to accumulate top-end talent at every position
: September 03, 2012, 05:14:36 PM big_jlb


JDouble

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#24 : September 03, 2012, 05:33:39 PM

" Is Dominiks drafting really all that bad? "

No. Most fans don't pay attention to other teams, but if they did they would see that nobody else does any better than Dom does. Some teams are a little better, some teams are a little worse, but on average you are lucky to find 2 solid starters per draft and most FAs are a 50/50 gamble. Our fans expect Dom to be perfect and hit on everything, so every draft pick or signing that doesn't pan out is magnified and over exaggerated. Dom is far from perfect, but he is far from horrible too. He's been pretty average, so getting rid of him would be stupid imo. He's a young guy that has done pretty well. Continuity in the front office and staff is huge, so I just don't see it as an advantage to replace Dom.


JDouble

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#25 : September 03, 2012, 05:37:02 PM

Also, the HC coach does effect the draft. Myron Lewis for example was Raheem's guy all the way. This year Tandy and Goode were obvious Schiano guys. I think Raheem/Dom did ok, but I think Schiano/Dom will do better. I mean look at year one....Barron, Martin, and David look like this could be the best draft in a decade.


The Anomaly

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#26 : September 03, 2012, 05:42:35 PM

Dom is officially on the warm seat.  The youth movement has a lot to do with all the starters.  I am beginning to wonder if he is a quality GM.

jerseybucsfan

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#27 : September 03, 2012, 05:58:09 PM

1. Of course there will be less starters from 2004 than 2012. The average NFL player's career is short. That proves NOTHING. Go around the league. On virtually every team, there will be few players left from 2004, even the good teams.
2. Of course a team will have more of the current GM's picks than the last GM. The current GM is trying new players because in theory the old players weren't good enough. But also, from a human standpoint, the new GM has to justify their own position by keeping THEIR players.
3. Starters mean nothing. It's GOOD starters that are relevant. And to this point, Dom has brought in a couple quality FAs (VJax and Nicks) and drafted ONE player that we feel comfortable as being good (Clayborn). The rest of the roster is filled with guys who have disappointed. Furthermore, you can't compare it to the 2004 and 2005 teams because there was more talent left over from the PREVIOUS regime. So it's a double-edged sword if you're criticizing the old regime: if they won, you give credit to the previous regime, but if they lose, you blame it on them COMPLETELY.
Bottom line: Old regime made bad moves and this one isn't making enough good ones. The last regime's failures doesn't make this one look any better. IMHO if we can win more than 6 games, you give kudos to the new coach and feel confident Dominik made enough right moves to feel optimistic about the future. But if McCoy gets hurt again, if Freeman turns out to be a bust and this team wins about 5 games, there can be NO positive spin on where we are. It'll be time for more pass rush, a new QB and a new GM.

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Lord Jenkins

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#28 : September 03, 2012, 05:59:02 PM

I think Dom is just a contract and scouting guy. He probably helps with the draft board a lot, but those drafts have to belong to the ex head coach and his coordinators. I mean come on, the guy has never coached and his qualifications come from a bachelor of science degree in sports management. Now if your GM is Mike Holmgren or Parcells..


Skull and Bones

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#29 : September 03, 2012, 06:09:05 PM

he was director of pro personnel before this gig.  But anyways, com is probably listening to the coaches and the scouts to make his decisions.  He probably doesn't personally evaluate the hundred or so prospects on their board.

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