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NovaBuc

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#30 : September 08, 2012, 03:19:29 PM

OK..................JOSH FREEMAN.............Last 9 games he played in  209-332   62.0%    2133 yards     11 TD's  16 INT's      RECORD  ( 0-9)

                         TIM TEBOW                      Last 9 games he played in 120-269    44%      1581 YARDS   1O TD'S   6 INTS'S  RECORD   ( 6-3)


DEBATE  ENDS WITH  THE SCOREBOARD AT 0:00  IN THE FOURTH QUARTER ...............SCOREBOARD AND WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Out of curiosity I took a look at those 9 games..

 Tebow faced only 1 team with a winning record in that span, lost badly against the Patriots with his opponents having a combined record of 70-74. Toughest defense he faced was KC's, ranked 12th. Rankings of all defenses he faced in that span in order: 29,12, 20, 22, 31,14, 15, 30, and 12. Not exactly Murderer's Row.. Tebow's team scored 176 points in that span, with 21 coming from defense/special teams.

 Freeman's opponents those 9 games had a combined record of 84 -60, faced five winning teams and had four games against playoff teams (three division winners, one wild card team). Ranking of defenses faced in those nine games: 18, 27, 16, 11, 8, 19, 4, 13, 14 with the toughest defense being Houston's. Freeman's team scored 155 points in that span, with 23 coming from defense.

 Won't get into the injuries, I don't know Denver's starters last year well enough to say, though a quick perusal of the IR list for the two teams seems to show Tampa fared worse:

 Denver's 2011 IR list:

83 Mark Dell WR (IR)
42 Mario Fannin RB (IR)
73 Chris Kuper G (IR)
46 Spencer Larsen FB (IR)
27 Knowshon Moreno RB (IR)
22 Syd'Quan Thompson CB (IR)
41 Cassius Vaughn CB (IR)
99 Kevin Vickerson DT (IR)
94 Ty Warren DT (IR)

 Buc's 2011 IR list:
 
96 Tim Crowder DE (IR)
51 Jacob Cutrera OLB (IR)
34 Earnest Graham RB/FB (IR)
35 Cody Grimm FS (IR)
30 Devin Holland SS (IR)
97 George Johnson DE (IR)
79 John McCargo DT (IR)
93 Gerald McCoy DT (IR)
25 Aqib Talib CB (IR)
86 Raymond Webber WR (IR)
78 E. J. Wilson DT (IR)

 So, to sum up Tebow's team scored 21 more points while facing on average the 21st (20.5 rounded up) ranked defense compared to Freeman's average 14th (14.4 rounded down) ranked defense. Freeman's defense gave up 121 more points than Tebow's facing the likes of Cutler, Brees, Schaub, Rodgers, Hasselbeck, Gabbert, Romo, Newton and Ryan while Denver's defense faced Palmer, Cassel, Sanchez, Rivers, Ponder, Hanie, Brady, Fitzpatrick and Orton.

 While Freeman deserves criticism for his play last year and he's definitely on the hot seat this year, Tebow's been getting a pass for having a winning record against non-winning teams after facing some of the worst defenses last year. You know, kinda like Freeman faced in 2010.

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#31 : September 08, 2012, 03:20:52 PM

Pathetic bashing or not 22 int's and losing 10 in a row would get most QB's pulled. The issue is we have no competition at QB. If we had a real back up here who had won some real games in the NFL, perhaps you sit Josh a game last year.

Those losses were not totally on Freeman, there were games he played well enough to win. Here are the games:

11/06 New Orleans 27-37 281 yards 1TD 0INTs
11/20 Green Bay 28-38 342 yards 2TD 2INTs (both were on the receivers)
12/17 Dallas 17-27 148 yards 1TD 0INTs (offensive line played terrible that game)
12/24 Carolina 28-38 274 yards 1TD 1INTs
01/01 Atlanta 31-45 274 yards 2TD 3INTs (two interceptions were on Winslow)

Four of the 9 games that he played in - he played well enough for the team to win. Yes he threw 22 interceptions, but at least a third of those were on the receivers for running the wrong route, not running a good route or letting the ball bounce off their hands and into the hands of the defender.

Freeman WAS NOT the problem last season that he is made out to be. Lack of discipline, too many penalties, inferior play calling and the fact that the offense was playing from behind all the time lead to many of those losses. I've watched many of those games on NFL Rewind as I'm sure the coaching staff has done and that's the primary reason Winslow isn't here this season and while we made getting Nicks and Jackson a priority.

Freeman didn't play well last season, but neither did a lot of guys. Those 10 losses were a group effort and to think otherwise is stupid IMO.

 >:(

Don't come in here speaking the truth. Java may not like that.

Freeman is going to be a beast this season. He will have to eat more crow as the season progresses.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

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#32 : September 08, 2012, 03:36:12 PM

Tebow faced only 1 team with a winning record in that span, lost badly against the Patriots

Maybe you forget about this game.   The Steelers were 12-4.   Then they faced Tebow...

: September 08, 2012, 03:52:39 PM JavaRay


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#33 : September 08, 2012, 03:47:57 PM

The Jets were 8-8 and a damn good team.   Tebow time is the only reason they didn't end up with a winning record.



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#34 : September 08, 2012, 03:59:53 PM



NovaBuc

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#35 : September 08, 2012, 04:14:27 PM

Tebow faced only 1 team with a winning record in that span, lost badly against the Patriots

Maybe you forget about this game.



 No, didn't forget.. I was going by the same 9 games Zell did. Otherwise Tebow's record isn't 6-3 iin his last 9 games..it's 5-4. But for the sake of argument, I'll include those two playoff games.. his average defense rank improves to 18 (17.7 rounded up) even with facing the #1 defense in the league, still lower than what Freeman faced on average.

 And no, the Jets were a terrible team last year that was lucky to finish 8-8. They got a gift from Romo to win their opener (a classic late-game interception thrown by Romo lead to the game-winning FG), another gift in their game against SD where Turner didn't challenge a play where Sanchez was obviously down before getting a first down on a drive that lead to a TD and Rivers inexplicably throwing the ball away on a 4th down play.

 

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#36 : September 08, 2012, 04:18:14 PM



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#37 : September 08, 2012, 04:23:53 PM

There is no way that Tebow would lose 9 games in a row like Freeman did.   He's too much of a competitor and a winner.    Freeman may have more physical talent, but Tebow has the intangibles of a winner.


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#38 : September 08, 2012, 04:29:18 PM

This is a good video.   Anyone who enjoys NFL football will enjoy it.



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#39 : September 08, 2012, 04:35:48 PM

There is no way that Tebow would lose 9 games in a row like Freeman did.   He's too much of a competitor and a winner.    Freeman may have more physical talent, but Tebow has the intangibles of a winner.

 Just have to agree to disagree on that one as it is likely Tebow will never be the starting QB on a team like the Buccaneers last year. Tebow isn't a starter at the moment and I'm guessing he won't start nine games as a QB anytime soon so not much of a chance to put that to the test. After watching Tebow play last year, if he was on a team with the injuries, schedule and coaching the Bucs had last year I doubt he does much better than Freeman did. He's a good runner but a terrible passer in a passing-driven league. His drive to win can only go so far in the NFL, he's just one player. And let's not forget his team traded Tebow and a 7th round pick away for a fourth and sixth round pick. Hardly the type of compensation you'd expect for a 'baller'.

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#40 : September 08, 2012, 04:41:09 PM

Tebow will be the starter in New York this year before the season is over...


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#41 : September 08, 2012, 08:58:54 PM

The fact is JOSH FREEMAN was the LEADER OF THAT TEAM AND THEY LOST badly week after week, you would think that this stiff would pull out one game, he is terrible and we will have to start over again AFTER HE IS RANKED SAY 26TH IN EFFICIENCY RATING THIS YEAR......HE HAS NO HEART AT ALL....... if TEBOW had  half  skill set of Freeman he would be an MVP candidate.....we wont win with him....HOPEFULLY HE HAS SAVED HIS MONEY AND WONT END UP ON THE STREET LIKE 90% OF NFL BUSTS.

..

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#42 : September 08, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

This is a good video.   Anyone who enjoys NFL football will enjoy it.




That is an EPIC video, not good,  too bad he really can't make NFL throws, but he has 10X the heart and desire that Josh Stiffman   aka Freeman  has....always makes you wonder what separates the successful from the also ran...it is always heart.

..

Zellination

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#43 : September 08, 2012, 09:08:47 PM

Pathetic bashing or not 22 int's and losing 10 in a row would get most QB's pulled. The issue is we have no competition at QB. If we had a real back up here who had won some real games in the NFL, perhaps you sit Josh a game last year.

Those losses were not totally on Freeman, there were games he played well enough to win. Here are the games:

11/06 New Orleans 27-37 281 yards 1TD 0INTs
11/20 Green Bay 28-38 342 yards 2TD 2INTs (both were on the receivers)
12/17 Dallas 17-27 148 yards 1TD 0INTs (offensive line played terrible that game)
12/24 Carolina 28-38 274 yards 1TD 1INTs
01/01 Atlanta 31-45 274 yards 2TD 3INTs (two interceptions were on Winslow)

Four of the 9 games that he played in - he played well enough for the team to win. Yes he threw 22 interceptions, but at least a third of those were on the receivers for running the wrong route, not running a good route or letting the ball bounce off their hands and into the hands of the defender.

Freeman WAS NOT the problem last season that he is made out to be. Lack of discipline, too many penalties, inferior play calling and the fact that the offense was playing from behind all the time lead to many of those losses. I've watched many of those games on NFL Rewind as I'm sure the coaching staff has done and that's the primary reason Winslow isn't here this season and while we made getting Nicks and Jackson a priority.

Freeman didn't play well last season, but neither did a lot of guys. Those 10 losses were a group effort and to think otherwise is stupid IMO.

 >:(

Don't come in here speaking the truth. Java may not like that.

Freeman is going to be a beast this season. He will have to eat more crow as the season progresses.


What else will Java have to eat  more  crow.???????  What the hell does that mean, he hasn't been wrong yet.

..

Zellination

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#44 : September 08, 2012, 09:27:28 PM

OK..................JOSH FREEMAN.............Last 9 games he played in  209-332   62.0%    2133 yards     11 TD's  16 INT's      RECORD  ( 0-9)

                         TIM TEBOW                      Last 9 games he played in 120-269    44%      1581 YARDS   1O TD'S   6 INTS'S  RECORD   ( 6-3)


DEBATE  ENDS WITH  THE SCOREBOARD AT 0:00  IN THE FOURTH QUARTER ...............SCOREBOARD AND WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Out of curiosity I took a look at those 9 games..

 Tebow faced only 1 team with a winning record in that span, lost badly against the Patriots with his opponents having a combined record of 70-74. Toughest defense he faced was KC's, ranked 12th. Rankings of all defenses he faced in that span in order: 29,12, 20, 22, 31,14, 15, 30, and 12. Not exactly Murderer's Row.. Tebow's team scored 176 points in that span, with 21 coming from defense/special teams.

 Freeman's opponents those 9 games had a combined record of 84 -60, faced five winning teams and had four games against playoff teams (three division winners, one wild card team). Ranking of defenses faced in those nine games: 18, 27, 16, 11, 8, 19, 4, 13, 14 with the toughest defense being Houston's. Freeman's team scored 155 points in that span, with 23 coming from defense.

 Won't get into the injuries, I don't know Denver's starters last year well enough to say, though a quick perusal of the IR list for the two teams seems to show Tampa fared worse:

 Denver's 2011 IR list:

83 Mark Dell WR (IR)
42 Mario Fannin RB (IR)
73 Chris Kuper G (IR)
46 Spencer Larsen FB (IR)
27 Knowshon Moreno RB (IR)
22 Syd'Quan Thompson CB (IR)
41 Cassius Vaughn CB (IR)
99 Kevin Vickerson DT (IR)
94 Ty Warren DT (IR)

 Buc's 2011 IR list:
 
96 Tim Crowder DE (IR)
51 Jacob Cutrera OLB (IR)
34 Earnest Graham RB/FB (IR)
35 Cody Grimm FS (IR)
30 Devin Holland SS (IR)
97 George Johnson DE (IR)
79 John McCargo DT (IR)
93 Gerald McCoy DT (IR)
25 Aqib Talib CB (IR)
86 Raymond Webber WR (IR)
78 E. J. Wilson DT (IR)

 So, to sum up Tebow's team scored 21 more points while facing on average the 21st (20.5 rounded up) ranked defense compared to Freeman's average 14th (14.4 rounded down) ranked defense. Freeman's defense gave up 121 more points than Tebow's facing the likes of Cutler, Brees, Schaub, Rodgers, Hasselbeck, Gabbert, Romo, Newton and Ryan while Denver's defense faced Palmer, Cassel, Sanchez, Rivers, Ponder, Hanie, Brady, Fitzpatrick and Orton.

 While Freeman deserves criticism for his play last year and he's definitely on the hot seat this year, Tebow's been getting a pass for having a winning record against non-winning teams after facing some of the worst defenses last year. You know, kinda like Freeman faced in 2010.

Josh PIckman  played  Falcons twice 20th against the pass,  cowboys 23rd, Bears 28th, Packers LAST, Panthers 24th and worse than the Bucs,  Titans 14th...... that is 6 of 9 losses against suck tastic  pass defenses..and lost all 9 games, I think JAVA has made a great point......

..
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