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CBWx2

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« #30 : September 18, 2012, 04:07:39 PM »

Which is because they are heavily taxed locally and thus a higher cost of living. Bit of a vicious circle really.

Maybe those red states should tax more so that they can stop mooching off of the blue ones.


spartan

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« #31 : September 18, 2012, 04:54:40 PM »

maybe we can secede, that will make everybody happy

cyberdude558

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« #32 : September 18, 2012, 05:21:40 PM »

Gallup poll shows 1/3rd of households that have an income under $24,000 a year support Romney.

Does the guy not even understand who is voters are?

dbucfan

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« #33 : September 18, 2012, 05:41:51 PM »

Do you not see these folks are seeing hope in a change from Obama?

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Cyrus

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« #34 : September 18, 2012, 05:52:00 PM »

Do you not see these folks are seeing hope in a change from Obama?

The point is they are seeing lies and deceit from the other guy.

dbucfan

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« #35 : September 18, 2012, 06:01:02 PM »

How odd - seems a lot of folks have figured out the map doesn't describe or address the problem.  Rather the use of the government spending that is an issue.  Now if someone cares to identify the folks that abuse the system we have a start to the resolution.  Naturally - someone will have to begin the LOOK to find them - perhaps with a new administration... 

Poll: Are Many Americans Too Dependent on Government?
Published: Tuesday, 18 Sep 2012 | 10:09 AM ET Text Size
By: CNBC

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a fundraising event earlier this year that “there are 47 percent who are with him (Obama), who are dependent upon the government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them.”


Do you agree with Romney's statement?
Yes
75%
No
23%
Not Sure
2%
Total Votes: 21893
Not a Scientific Survey
Results may not total 100% due to rounding
The statement, which was secretly taped and released on Monday, came under immediate attack by the Obama campaign. You can watch the video here.

So what do you think, do you agree with Romney's statement?

Vote now in our poll.


RELATED LINKS
Kudlow: Have Romney’s Closest Advisors Failed Him?Romney Is Right—US Must Get Tough With China: MoriciRomney to Chase Hispanic Vote With Pledge on ImmigrationObama Widens Lead Over Romney to 7 Points
© 2012 CNBC.com

TOPICS:Paul Ryan | Political Action Committees | Campaign Finance | Barack Obama | Mitt Romney | Democrats | Republicans | Congress | Laws and Legislation | Regulations | Politics and Government | Government Agencies | Government Programs | Elections
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\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

spartan

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« #36 : September 18, 2012, 08:13:17 PM »

There was a poll recently that said something like 54% of folks said they think the Govt does too much. I am thinking Romney could take this and turn it into his favor. You want to stay dependent and beholden to the Govt, vote for the other guy, want to get off the Govt largesse vote for me. It's not like we can afford it anyway for very much longer. This is from the UK and is a very good read. I think it represents my personal viewpoint extremely well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9548332/Britains-welfare-state-is-broken-so-whats-next.html

Britain's welfare state is broken – so what’s next?

To promote prudence and responsibility, rather than the dependency and waste of the welfare system, we should return to mutual aid societies

People are living far longer in retirement than was envisaged when Lloyd George or William Beveridge (above) were laying the foundations of the modern welfare state

I have a clear recollection from childhood of people on the estate where we lived paying money to someone called the tontine man. Since my parents did not subscribe, I had no idea what the tontine was, imagining it was a bit like the pools or even a protection racket. In fact, it was a mutual life insurance scheme named after Lorenzo de Tonti, a 17th century Neapolitan economist. The original tontines were government bonds, probably the first issued, which paid an annuity from an accumulated sum. As contributors died, payments were shared out among surviving members, pushing up the value of each annuity so that the last man standing had all the money. On his death, the scheme was wound up.

There was, therefore, a built-in incentive for members to bump each other off, something that supplied Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne with a plot-line for their comic novel The Wrong Box. Although no evidence exists outside of fiction of people being murdered for the money, tontines were banned in Britain long ago, so perhaps the one I recall was unlawful or the term was still being used for any generic mutual aid scheme.

This memory sprang to mind while I was reading a collection of essays in a new book called After the Welfare State, edited by the American libertarian academic Tom Palmer. It starts from the premise that the current taxpayer-funded provision of cradle-to-grave benefits is unsustainable and will bankrupt Western economies. Palmer argues that on both moral (ending dependency) and economic grounds, almost everyone will in future have to make their own plans for difficult times because the state cannot forever underwrite the ballooning liabilities without imploding. Today’s young people must prepare for a very different world from the one their forebears created in the two decades after the Second World War. It will require the reinvention of the past, with greater emphasis on self-reliance and mutual assistance. Even if we don’t like it, we know it has to happen. As the latest British Social Attitudes Survey published yesterday showed, support for more state spending on social benefits has halved from a peak of 63 per cent nine years ago, to just 31 per cent.

So, if we cannot go on as we are, what happens next? One essay in the Palmer book, by David Green, director of the Civitas think tank, reminds us of our rich history of mutual help through a flourishing network of friendly societies. Green observes that the commonly held assumption that the welfare state filled the gaps left by the market, which otherwise let people sink into penury, is false. For a start, there was charitable help; but the biggest source of welfare involved organised mutual benefit schemes.

During the 19th and early 20th centuries they sprung up all over the country as a way of providing against hard times. We often think that Lloyd George’s National Insurance Act introduced social cover for the first time in 1911; yet nine million people already belonged to voluntary insurance associations by then. These were distinct from philanthropic organisations in one crucial respect: they were not run by one set of people in order to help another. Rather, they were associations of individuals pledged to help each other when the need arose. “Any assistance was not a matter of largesse but of entitlement, earned by the regular contributions paid into the common fund by every member and justified by the obligation to do the same for other members if hardship came their way,” writes Green.


But how is that different from paying taxes to the state to provide for you when you are ill or unemployed or old? Is that not just a gigantic mutual aid society? One important difference is that friendly societies engender fraternal ideas of reciprocity and entail mutual obligations between members and the organisation to which they belong. This works much better on a smaller scale than a national one. Politicians today like to remind people that they cannot just take from the welfare system without putting something back in or seeking a way out of their difficulties by taking a job. But this message is simply ignored or never even heard by those it is aimed at. Furthermore, mutualism encourages independence, responsibility and prudence rather than dependency, fecklessness and waste.

While a basic safety net would doubtless still be needed, mutualism could encompass everything from jobless benefits to elderly care. A report from the RSA think tank today extols the virtues of collective pensions, where people save together rather than separately. It opens with this startling figure: if a typical young Dutch person and his British counterpart both saved the same amount for their pension and retired on the same day and also died on the same day, the Dutch saver’s pension would be 50 per cent higher than the British one. This is because pension saving in Holland is collective and the risk is shared, substantially reducing the administration costs, which are crippling UK schemes. Such pensions make particular sense when more people are living far longer in retirement than was envisaged when Lloyd
George or Beveridge were laying the foundations of the modern welfare state. It is clear that public faith in the tax and spend policies followed by successive British governments since 1945 is near to collapse. This may give governments the political cover for tougher action to restrict the growth of benefits. But they need to think beyond the welfare state altogether, because it cannot last.

dbucfan

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« #37 : September 18, 2012, 08:23:34 PM »

Right now Romney isn't competing with Obama - he is competing with the media.  He is winning with the questions put out and his positions - with the citizenry.  The question is can he beat the media. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #38 : September 18, 2012, 08:38:59 PM »

Not for nothing dbuc, but the average CNBC viewer is a 42 year old white male with a median personal income of $93,833 annually who owns securities valued at $100,000 or more. Not exactly the folks Romney will have to answer to for those comments.


dbucfan

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« #39 : September 18, 2012, 08:43:47 PM »

I have no idea who visits their website and votes CBW - I defer to your knowledge.  Does that discredit the voting pattern?  Does the profile tell us if they are democrats, independents or republicans (well all republicans only watch FOX - forget that one) lol

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

spartan

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« #40 : September 18, 2012, 09:06:59 PM »

Do you not see these folks are seeing hope in a change from Obama?

The point is they are seeing lies and deceit from the other guy.

What lies?

dbucfan

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« #41 : September 18, 2012, 09:12:34 PM »

Do you not see these folks are seeing hope in a change from Obama?

The point is they are seeing lies and deceit from the other guy.

What lies?
The point made was that almost 1/3 of the low income group could possibly be seeing a better outcome with Romney as opposed to Obama.  A surprisingly large number when considering the reliance upon the big government/entitlement provider to those folks.  The 1/3 might be seeing the opportunity of improving their lives with a President Romney if you will. 


\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

mjs020294

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« #42 : September 18, 2012, 09:17:23 PM »

Mitt put a few truths in a blender added a few lies and then switched it on full but forgot to put the lid on.  The result was a bloody mess all over his face and pants.  LOL

The fact is more of the 47% of voters that do not pay income tax are GOP voters than are Democrat voters.  Another little titbit for you; in the 2008 election the average democrat voter was more educated than the average GOP voter.

Stereotypes and ignorance are bliss.



Cyrus

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« #43 : September 18, 2012, 09:19:19 PM »

Do you not see these folks are seeing hope in a change from Obama?

The point is they are seeing lies and deceit from the other guy.

What lies?

Oh for the love of God.

Stop that, Spartan.


Cyrus

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« #44 : September 18, 2012, 09:22:00 PM »

Another little titbit for you; in the 2008 election the average democrat voter was more educated than the average GOP voter.

Stop the LIberal Elite Intellectuals from poisoning this country!
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