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PewterG@tor

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#15 : October 02, 2012, 01:10:34 PM

Are we seriously debating the future of the current coaching staff after 4 games?  The team lost 10 consecutive games to end the season.  A new coach doesn't immediately alleviate the fact that there are serious problems on this team.  I don't have a problem with letting things play out for a few seasons before calling this regime hire a disaster

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#16 : October 02, 2012, 01:12:45 PM

Are we seriously debating the future of the current coaching staff after 4 games?  The team lost 10 consecutive games to end the season.  A new coach doesn't immediately alleviate the fact that there are serious problems on this team. 

Would upgrading nearly half the starters on both sides of the ball help alleviate that fact?


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#17 : October 02, 2012, 01:19:37 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#18 : October 02, 2012, 01:22:29 PM

Shottenheimer, his son as OC and an old crony of Marty's at DC may have been better than the current 3 headed monster. Anomaly pretty much nailed it. Of course I'm bitter after Sunday's prick tease performance....

schottenheimer really worked some magic with sanchez.  big schot never won a SB...thats what its all about, right?  and that other old crony probably hasnt attempted to stop drew brees either.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#19 : October 02, 2012, 01:24:35 PM

Are we seriously debating the future of the current coaching staff after 4 games?  The team lost 10 consecutive games to end the season.  A new coach doesn't immediately alleviate the fact that there are serious problems on this team.  I don't have a problem with letting things play out for a few seasons before calling this regime hire a disaster

Here's the thing... it's not about just wanting to fire Schiano now, it's about what could happen in December/January.  If this team wins 3 or 4 games this season, don't you think Dominik gets fired?  I do.  I think most here do as well.  Now, if they fire Dominik, don't you think the new GM will want a coach and a QB that you can trust?  Do you think that a quality/experienced GM will feel confident in Freeman after being say 8-24 (for example), the past 2 seasons?  I don't.  Do you think the new GM will feel comfortable in Schiano's ability to lead the team into the next era?  I don't.  If he doesn't, you know what's going to happen?  They'll going into 2013 with virtually the same team and end up with the same results.  If that happens, they'll scrap the entire thing and start all over again.  Do you want that?  I don't.  After this season, they should fire everyone and get a new GM who brings in a competent coach and staff.  Sign a guy like Trent Edwards or Jason Campbell and draft a new QB.  They'll still have Jackson and Williams to throw to.  Martin and possibly Blount to hand to and possibly an improving defense.

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#20 : October 02, 2012, 01:26:54 PM

Would upgrading nearly half the starters on both sides of the ball help alleviate that fact?

in the long term id say we upgraded...but in the present?

LT - no upgrade
*LG - upgrade
*C - upgrade
RG - no upgrade
RG - no upgrade
TE - no upgrade
*WR1 - upgrade
*WR2 - upgrade
RB - no upgrade
FB - no upgrade
QB - no upgrade

LE - no upgrade
*DT - upgrade
NT - no upgrade
RE - no upgrade
WLB - rookie
MLB - no upgrade
SLB - no upgrade
CB - no upgrade
*CB - upgrade
S - no upgrade
S - rookie

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#21 : October 02, 2012, 01:29:03 PM

Here's the thing... it's not about just wanting to fire Schiano now, it's about what could happen in December/January.  If this team wins 3 or 4 games this season, don't you think Dominik gets fired?  I do.  I think most here do as well.  Now, if they fire Dominik, don't you think the new GM will want a coach and a QB that you can trust?  Do you think that a quality/experienced GM will feel confident in Freeman after being say 8-24 (for example), the past 2 seasons?  I don't.  Do you think the new GM will feel comfortable in Schiano's ability to lead the team into the next era?  I don't.  If he doesn't, you know what's going to happen?  They'll going into 2013 with virtually the same team and end up with the same results.  If that happens, they'll scrap the entire thing and start all over again.  Do you want that?  I don't.  After this season, they should fire everyone and get a new GM who brings in a competent coach and staff.  Sign a guy like Trent Edwards or Jason Campbell and draft a new QB.  They'll still have Jackson and Williams to throw to.  Martin and possibly Blount to hand to and possibly an improving defense.
No one is going to want a GM job where you have a head coach with 4 years and $20 million left on a contract. All GM's want to hire their own coaches.

If the team goes 4-12 or 5-11, it's going to be because Freeman is terrible. While all GM's are ultimately responsible for who they pick, Dominik should have enough insulation around himself to weather the Freeman pick by blaming as much as he can on Morris. He's not getting fired.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#22 : October 02, 2012, 01:29:06 PM


And then, if they don't win the Super Bowl, scrap it all and start over again the next year. I'll be playing Madden.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#23 : October 02, 2012, 01:29:06 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#24 : October 02, 2012, 01:31:33 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?

CBW has made it clear he does not like Schiano so that comment doesnt surprise me. Of course Schiano has a vision. His vision isnt going to come to fruition in the first 4 weeks though. Give him time. Some people have no god damn patience and need results now. The quick pill society we live in these days.

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#25 : October 02, 2012, 01:32:33 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?
Everyone has a vision. Raheem Morris had a vision.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#26 : October 02, 2012, 01:34:50 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?
Everyone has a vision. Raheem Morris had a vision.

Agree but that doesnt mean it will have the same results. I dont know how anybody could have their mind made up about this regime right now. Way too premature.

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#27 : October 02, 2012, 01:35:20 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?

CBW has made it clear he does not like Schiano so that comment doesnt surprise me. Of course Schiano has a vision. His vision isnt going to come to fruition in the first 4 weeks though. Give him time. Some people have no god damn patience and need results now. The quick pill society we live in these days.

+1

It's all about the agenda

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#28 : October 02, 2012, 01:41:34 PM

Year four of the so-called rebuild.  We hire an 11 year big easy coach that couldn't even win it.  We follow that home run by hiring the worst dc in giants history and a guy who has never called plays before...this is what you are selling to me?  What a joke.   Year number four.  If we ditch josh and start over at qb...what then?   All of you trashing freeman are nuts.  We need that kid to pull it out or we're really screwed.

+1

I know the NFL is a copy cat league, but the Glazers and Dominick are the worst copy cats in the NFL. In 2009 they wanted to be the next Pittsburgh Steelers, who won the Super Bowl in 2008, so they hired a young, African American coach who they thought could be the next Mike Tomlin. Next time around, they claim they want to be the next NY Giants because they had just won the Super Bowl, and so they hire a strict disciplinarian ala Tom Coughlin, and a bunch of Giants cast off assistants.

What they don't get is that you can't become a team by hiring someone who looks like the guy you are trying to copy. Stop coming up with some asinine vision and looking for someone who fits the mold, and actually look for someone who has their own vision. That's what they did when they hired Dungy. That's what they did when they hired Gruden. Why they decided to get away from that is a mystery to me.

What's crazy is that I think they were on to something when they courted Chip Kelly. I have no clue how you can look at Chip Kelly one minute, and then settle on someone like Greg Schiano when that falls through. You couldn't find two more unsimilar coaches. This tells me that they were pretty much clueless as to what they were trying to accomplish in this coaching search they dragged out, and perhaps the reason it dragged was because they were so clueless, not because they were being diligent.
You could be right or you could be completely wrong, but this is a well thought out and well reasoned post.

but how can you say that Schiano doesnt have his own vision?
Everyone has a vision. Raheem Morris had a vision.

Agree but that doesnt mean it will have the same results. I dont know how anybody could have their mind made up about this regime right now. Way too premature.
I'm not saying anyone should have their mind made up. I like to stir the pot, but my mind isn't made up. However, even if you support Schiano you should certainly recognize the potential he could suck. Coaches are hired to be fired. Whether CBW is right or not, I think he presented a valid argument that for two straight coaching hires, the Glazers looked at what the popular kids are doing and tried to copy them.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

PewterG@tor

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#29 : October 02, 2012, 01:42:42 PM

Are we seriously debating the future of the current coaching staff after 4 games?  The team lost 10 consecutive games to end the season.  A new coach doesn't immediately alleviate the fact that there are serious problems on this team.  I don't have a problem with letting things play out for a few seasons before calling this regime hire a disaster

Here's the thing... it's not about just wanting to fire Schiano now, it's about what could happen in December/January.  If this team wins 3 or 4 games this season, don't you think Dominik gets fired?  I do.  I think most here do as well.  Now, if they fire Dominik, don't you think the new GM will want a coach and a QB that you can trust?  Do you think that a quality/experienced GM will feel confident in Freeman after being say 8-24 (for example), the past 2 seasons?  I don't.  Do you think the new GM will feel comfortable in Schiano's ability to lead the team into the next era?  I don't.  If he doesn't, you know what's going to happen?  They'll going into 2013 with virtually the same team and end up with the same results.  If that happens, they'll scrap the entire thing and start all over again.  Do you want that?  I don't.  After this season, they should fire everyone and get a new GM who brings in a competent coach and staff.  Sign a guy like Trent Edwards or Jason Campbell and draft a new QB.  They'll still have Jackson and Williams to throw to.  Martin and possibly Blount to hand to and possibly an improving defense.

Couldn't disagree more.  A losing season will not doom Dominik.  Hiring Schiano gave him a get out of jail free card since a real assessment can't be made from just one season of coaching.  His draft picks seem to be performing well under the new regime.  All around it's a better product on the field considering the way things have been since Gruden was fired.  A new QB is a possibility next season but we won't know anything until 16 games have been played.
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