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dexmonkey

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#30 : October 12, 2012, 10:47:18 AM

Suh is still better in my mind only because of his rookie season and the fact that he has actually finished every season.

that being said when mccoy was healthy last year and thus far this year he has definately outplayed Suh. if mccoy continues to play the way he has for an entire season we might be singing a different tune at the end of the year and mccoy might be going to the pro bowl

I hope you do not make the same excuses for freeman, when comparing him to stafford.

that would be idiotic. stafford has played better than Freeman when he isnt hurt and has been the better player overall. mccoy has been better as an all around player than Suh but he hasnt shown to be able to stay healthy. Suh has a Pro bowl berth as well which mccoy doesnt. if mccoy goes to the pro bowl and stays healthy then we'll be ready to have this conversation and make a good comparison

lyronmewis

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#31 : October 12, 2012, 10:47:23 AM

I'd still take Suh. I always knew that McCoy would be the better penetrator, but Suh is the better run defender, more stout player, and has less injury likelihood. Penetrating DTs take more of a physical toll on their body. I think that is one of the biggest reasons Sapp's production was so varied when he was here, and I expect to see the same from McCoy. When McCoy is on he can affect the game more, but I'd expect to continue to see a more inconsistent career.

A side note. JJ Watt looks better than both of them right now.

Suh could be a better run defender, but it's not the way he's been playing the NFL so far. He gets washed out of plays too frequently.

After his first year,  teams just gameplanned around him, and he hasn't really taken the next step as yet.

It may happen to McCoy when he starts getting more production.

warrenfb12

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#32 : October 12, 2012, 11:18:35 AM

How many total career games has McCoy played in?
If that's your argument it's warranted but assuming you have a healthy Suh and a healthy McCoy who would you want?

I'm not basing who I want on potential or projections. If I had to pick right now between Suh and McCoy, I would take Suh he is much more durable and puts up good numbers.
I'll take McCoy. He's the better player and affects the game by himself way more than Suh does.

Durability is an underrated quality that is not logged in the stat sheet.


nubcake

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#33 : October 12, 2012, 11:41:41 AM

McCoy has been clearly better this season. But just as it was stupid to declare Suh a future hall of farmer and McCoy a bust after their rookie seasons, as many here were doing, it's also stupid to say McCoy is now the better player based on 4 games into this season. For starters, he has to prove he can even stay healthy for a full season first.

Both players are still early in their careers, and it's still too early to make a verdict on either one.


Ms Elam

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#34 : October 12, 2012, 01:18:08 PM


Can Suh play the run? I'm under the impression that he sucks at playing thee run because he doesn't play to stop the run, he plays for sacks. In college Suh was a monster controlling 2 gaps, while McCoy was thought to be the more natural pass rusher. Suh racked up some sacks his rookie year and since then its been his main focus. I actually remember Schwartz saying that's the way they play, they get after the quarterback.

Always those lame excuses. You said it best yourself ' he sucks at playing the run'. Why do we have to pick plays Suh feels comfortable with? I thought he was an NFL DT?

What's next? He is just 25 years old? That 2010 reference gets old fast.
Excuse? If saying a guy sucks at playing the run because he doesn't play the run is an excuse then its not a very good one. That's like saying the only reason I failed the class is bcause I didn't do my work. If u feel like I was offering an excuse then you are mistaken.

QaZ

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#35 : October 12, 2012, 05:40:46 PM

Excuse? If saying a guy sucks at playing the run because he doesn't play the run is an excuse then its not a very good one. That's like saying the only reason I failed the class is bcause I didn't do my work. If u feel like I was offering an excuse then you are mistaken.

If you setting standards, making explainations, they better aplly to all players, else its nothing but an excuse.

If you wanna say Suh does not focus on stopping the run as much, then this would be an explaination why he would out play Mccoy rushing the passer, but hey, he does not even do this.

Tebow was a 'monster' passing the ball in college, as it looks like he is not asked to pass as much in the NFL anymore, focusing more on option stuff. Nothing but excuses. Yeah Peytons inability to run the ball gets hidden by calling more pass plays, right? Double standards.

that would be idiotic. stafford has played better than Freeman when he isnt hurt and has been the better player overall. mccoy has been better as an all around player than Suh but he hasnt shown to be able to stay healthy. Suh has a Pro bowl berth as well which mccoy doesnt. if mccoy goes to the pro bowl and stays healthy then we'll be ready to have this conversation and make a good comparison

So Stafford is a better player than Freeman? Both had 1 full 16 game season, then their QBR diffs by 1.3 points.WOW. But, yes i would call stafford a pretty good passer as well, when healthy  AND when megatron does not suffer from a concussion.
Strafford is a better player overall? Because 1 win seperates them? If freeman wins vs KC he will catch him, will even surpass him when Stafford looses @PHI. Good luck matthew, vs those blitz happy eagles.
All this when healthy? Of course. But only Mccoy has to proove to be able to stay on the field, because both have pretty much the same on-field% ( ~61%)? While stafford has 4 years in the NFL, and Mccoy just begins his 3rd. So much easier to 'outplay' 1 unlucky injury in the stats book here. Why not ask Suh to proove he can stay on the field, No, i'm not asking about both his repaired knees, i talk about not getting suspended, he is 1 brain fart away from missing a few games AGAIN...1 brain fart on AND off the field.
So a pro bowl vote identifies greatness? 1 good season in 2010(!!), and he is good for all?

I call double standards here , nothing but excuses. Idiotic? No doubt.

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#36 : October 12, 2012, 05:42:08 PM

Let Megatron get traded or go on IR and then tell me how awesome Stafford is.


gone

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#37 : October 12, 2012, 06:14:55 PM

It's an interesting comparison and the two will always invite it given how they were picked.  Never would have expected it, but I think if Gerald's injuries just prove to have been coincidence and he stays as health as the next guy for the next few years he has a legit chance to win this "contest".  Gerald's been slowed by injuries and incompetent coaching.  We discussed at length here about how Raheem tried to teach him multiple spots along the line from the minute he got here and I thought then (along with many others) that that was an idiotic move.  He's starting to come around now, and regardless of how lighthearted he seems he does have his head on straight.  Suh seems determined to take the express train to Haynesworthville.  Tons of talent but hard to trusat this point.  He's also had more time and consistency and a better team around him.  You'd expecting him to be running away with this one.
: October 12, 2012, 08:05:01 PM caradoc

Biggs3535

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#38 : October 12, 2012, 07:12:45 PM

Although I get your point, I don't think it's fair to compare Suh to Haynesworth.  Haynesworth never had 5+ sacks until he was playing for $$$.  Haynesworth is was a useless sack of crap that wasted his talent.  Suh busts his arse every snap.


bucs4eva

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#39 : October 12, 2012, 08:14:47 PM

Let Megatron get traded or go on IR and then tell me how awesome Stafford is.

How is this on Stafford? A lot of great QBs have had great WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Brady had Moss, Montana had Rice, Warner had Bruce/Holt/Fitzgerald.
Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season and more than 3,000 were to players other than Megatron. He can make all the throws, and is accurate.
Your whole Stafford is only good cuz of Megatron is lame, dude.


QaZ

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#40 : October 12, 2012, 08:20:19 PM

Let Megatron get traded or go on IR and then tell me how awesome Stafford is.

How is this on Stafford? A lot of great QBs have had great WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Brady had Moss, Montana had Rice, Warner had Bruce/Holt/Fitzgerald.
Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season and more than 3,000 were to players other than Megatron. He can make all the throws, and is accurate.
Your whole Stafford is only good cuz of Megatron is lame, dude.

No clue how you read THIS out of this comment. Pretty lame, dude

PassThePigSkin

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#41 : October 12, 2012, 09:22:40 PM

Although I get your point, I don't think it's fair to compare Suh to Haynesworth.  Haynesworth never had 5+ sacks until he was playing for $$$.  Haynesworth is was a useless sack of crap that wasted his talent.  Suh busts his arse every snap.

Suh is known to take plays off. I would say Haynesworth and Suh have the same attitude. Head Stomp/Road Rage.

bucs4eva

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#42 : October 12, 2012, 10:25:23 PM

Let Megatron get traded or go on IR and then tell me how awesome Stafford is.

How is this on Stafford? A lot of great QBs have had great WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Brady had Moss, Montana had Rice, Warner had Bruce/Holt/Fitzgerald.
Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season and more than 3,000 were to players other than Megatron. He can make all the throws, and is accurate.
Your whole Stafford is only good cuz of Megatron is lame, dude.

No clue how you read THIS out of this comment. Pretty lame, dude

He pretty much said Stafford wouldn't be "awesome" with Megatron. Learn how to read kid


leeroybuc93

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#43 : October 13, 2012, 03:21:43 AM

From Adam Shefter on ESPN:

3. The real McCoy: Before the 2010 draft, scouts debated whether Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh or Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy was the better defensive tackle prospect. In the first two seasons after the Lions drafted Suh with the second overall pick and the Buccaneers grabbed McCoy with the third overall pick, it looked like Detroit made the right call. But this season, there has been a shift. NFL scouts believe McCoy is outplaying Suh, which might not be saying much these days. Suh has no more than two tackles in eight straight games dating back to last Thanksgiving, the game in which he notoriously stomped Packers offensive lineman Evan Dietrich-Smith. Suh ranks 11th on the Lions with seven tackles whereas McCoy has more tackles, more sacks, more action and more support from NFL scouts. There's still plenty of season left, but for the time being, McCoy has morphed into the force that scouts thought Suh was destined to be.

QaZ

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#44 : October 13, 2012, 07:01:22 AM

Let Megatron get traded or go on IR and then tell me how awesome Stafford is.

How is this on Stafford? A lot of great QBs have had great WRs. Manning had Harrison and Wayne, Brady had Moss, Montana had Rice, Warner had Bruce/Holt/Fitzgerald.
Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season and more than 3,000 were to players other than Megatron. He can make all the throws, and is accurate.
Your whole Stafford is only good cuz of Megatron is lame, dude.

No clue how you read THIS out of this comment. Pretty lame, dude

He pretty much said Stafford wouldn't be "awesome" with Megatron. Learn how to read kid

He asks how Stafford would look without megatron. Maybe he is holding down Stafford, from a 6000y season, could go either way.

Put your glasses on, old man.
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