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Kelly Thomas

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#60 : October 29, 2012, 11:12:59 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_and_ethnic_discrimination_in_the_United_States
"Racism against African Americans
Main article: African American history
Perhaps the most prominent and notable form of American racism (other than imperialism against Native Americans) began with the institution of slavery, during which Africans were enslaved and treated as property. Prior to the institution of slavery, early African and non-white immigrants to the Colonies had been regarded with equal status, serving as sharecroppers alongside whites. After the institution of slavery the status of Africans was stigmatized, and this stigma was the basis for the more virulent anti-African racism that persisted until the present.[26] African Americans were treated like second-class citizens. They were denied defense-industry jobs, and when the US entered World War II, they could only serve in segregated units.[27]"

spartan

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#61 : October 29, 2012, 11:19:48 AM

I think some people cannot differentiate between racist and bigotted. Racists are by their nature bigotted, but you can be bigotted without being a racist. Prejudice has many root causes, many of which have nothing to do with racism.

However prejudice is a vital part in the defining of racism.

Yes, but I do no think racism has much to do with what we are talking about now.

There are sizable portions of the African American community that are prejudiced against white people both for real and perceived injustices. This has manifested into a bigotry and in some cases a hatred against all things white.
I also believe there is a sizable portion of the white population who are prejudiced against African American culture primarily because of what they say, how they behave and real and perceived preferential treatment.

Are either one of these based on race? No. And, why is this important? Because if you fail to realize the true cause of the problem you will never solve it.

Kelly Thomas

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#62 : October 29, 2012, 11:27:43 AM

I think some people cannot differentiate between racist and bigotted. Racists are by their nature bigotted, but you can be bigotted without being a racist. Prejudice has many root causes, many of which have nothing to do with racism.

However prejudice is a vital part in the defining of racism.

Yes, but I do no think racism has much to do with what we are talking about now.

There are sizable portions of the African American community that are prejudiced against white people both for real and perceived injustices. This has manifested into a bigotry and in some cases a hatred against all things white.
I also believe there is a sizable portion of the white population who are prejudiced against African American culture primarily because of what they say, how they behave and real and perceived preferential treatment.

Are either one of these based on race? No. And, why is this important? Because if you fail to realize the true cause of the problem you will never solve it.

I have asked this question (somewhat rhetorically) before; Is multiculturalism an inevitable failure? Maybe that's best left to a separate topic.

But using this thread as an example I do sometimes wonder.

Chief Joseph

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#63 : October 29, 2012, 11:44:36 AM


 " I have asked this question (somewhat rhetorically) before; Is multiculturalism an inevitable failure?"

It's certainly going to be a failure if only one of the parties involved denounces racism while the other parties embrace it.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

olafberserker

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#64 : October 29, 2012, 11:57:44 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_and_ethnic_discrimination_in_the_United_States
"Racism against African Americans
Main article: African American history
Perhaps the most prominent and notable form of American racism (other than imperialism against Native Americans) began with the institution of slavery, during which Africans were enslaved and treated as property. Prior to the institution of slavery, early African and non-white immigrants to the Colonies had been regarded with equal status, serving as sharecroppers alongside whites. After the institution of slavery the status of Africans was stigmatized, and this stigma was the basis for the more virulent anti-African racism that persisted until the present.[26] African Americans were treated like second-class citizens. They were denied defense-industry jobs, and when the US entered World War II, they could only serve in segregated units.[27]"

Ooh, great point.  Have we ever had a Native American president?

Biggs3535

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#65 : October 29, 2012, 12:10:10 PM

I think some people cannot differentiate between racist and bigotted. Racists are by their nature bigotted, but you can be bigotted without being a racist. Prejudice has many root causes, many of which have nothing to do with racism.

You can also throw stereotyping in with that group.  People confuse racism with stereotyping all of the time.


Dolorous Jason

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#66 : October 29, 2012, 12:21:59 PM

Over 230 + years there have been 42 white men as president and zero black presidents.

How could it be that some people actually think racism has played some part in all this........That's crazy talk!

Of course all that unpleasantry is in the past and doesn't exist anymore.

of course it doesn't. racism ended for white people after the civil rights act was passed. now only black people are racist.

When did either of them ever say that ??

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Kelly Thomas

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#67 : October 29, 2012, 12:31:05 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_and_ethnic_discrimination_in_the_United_States
"Racism against African Americans
Main article: African American history
Perhaps the most prominent and notable form of American racism (other than imperialism against Native Americans) began with the institution of slavery, during which Africans were enslaved and treated as property. Prior to the institution of slavery, early African and non-white immigrants to the Colonies had been regarded with equal status, serving as sharecroppers alongside whites. After the institution of slavery the status of Africans was stigmatized, and this stigma was the basis for the more virulent anti-African racism that persisted until the present.[26] African Americans were treated like second-class citizens. They were denied defense-industry jobs, and when the US entered World War II, they could only serve in segregated units.[27]"

Ooh, great point.  Have we ever had a Native American president?

No...and?


olafberserker

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#68 : October 29, 2012, 12:40:49 PM

Curious as to why the minority group that has had a President is the one folks have chosen to focus their angst on?

Kelly Thomas

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#69 : October 29, 2012, 12:45:45 PM


 " I have asked this question (somewhat rhetorically) before; Is multiculturalism an inevitable failure?"

It's certainly going to be a failure if only one of the parties involved denounces racism while the other parties embrace it.

But that's the problem. it's never all blacks or all whites that are guilty of racial animus but the individuals that make up the groups.

Each w/ their own opinion and none able to speak on behalf of whatever group. Right?

It goes back to..."Be the change you wish to see in the world".  I'm not sure that's a feasible thing w/ the human race.




Chief Joseph

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#70 : October 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM


 " But that's the problem. it's never all blacks or all whites that are guilty of racial animus but the individuals that make up the groups."

There are readily apparent cultural differences as well. Denying these differences, by any excuse, is of no service to progress.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Kelly Thomas

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#71 : October 29, 2012, 01:07:40 PM


 " But that's the problem. it's never all blacks or all whites that are guilty of racial animus but the individuals that make up the groups."

There are readily apparent cultural differences as well. Denying these differences, by any excuse, is of no service to progress.

Or perhaps the only way to get beyond all this is through complete assimilation?

Maybe there will come a day when the human race has melded into a single race of people, a mixture of all races, will be the only point that this racial divisiveness ends?

We can all see the assimilation taking place right now in our own lifetimes.

Chief Joseph

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#72 : October 29, 2012, 01:39:19 PM


From an evolutionary point of view, that's the worst thing that could happen. Partial assimilation creating new strains combined with partial segregation to preserve existing genotypes promotes maximum genetic diversity.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Kelly Thomas

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#73 : October 29, 2012, 02:02:21 PM

Maximum genetic diversity would result in greater physical & mental health of the species?

Chief Joseph

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#74 : October 29, 2012, 02:27:20 PM


Mental health is entirely subjective, and not something evolution is concerned with. If a populace is better able to utilize its resources and out compete its rivals, every one of them could be bats it crazy and evo doesn't care. In fact, I can make a very convincing argument that personality disorders are primarily vestigial remnants of evolutionary drives.
     Besides, humanity moved beyond individual evolutionary concerns with the invention of religion and then governments. This created large groups that function as a single super-organism. It is not necessary that an individual's role in society offer him perceived "happiness," it is only necessary that the defined role offer the larger group a competitive advantage against its rivals. It will then be in the interest of the group to continue producing such individuals, regardless of their mental state.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.
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