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CBWx2

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#15 : November 17, 2012, 10:16:27 AM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

go start your own companies and try to pay those pensions to your employees.   See how that works out for you.

Pensions need to be abolished in every company and replaced with 401k's.

The pension argument is a cop out. The company's problems stemmed more from mismanagement than anything. People are eating less Twinkies these days due to more competition in the snack-cake world and people deciding to opt for healthier alternatives. What was done at the management level to address the changes in it's consumer base? Not a damn thing. The workers already made concessions once, and the Teamsters were actually willing to make concessions again. The company was obviously so royally screwed that the first round of restructuring proved to be completely futile, and a second round would have likely just delayed the inevitable. Blaming workers for an 82 year-old company that has filed bankruptcy twice in less than a decade closing it's doors is asinine.
: November 17, 2012, 10:19:22 AM CBWx2


dbucfan

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#16 : November 17, 2012, 10:28:16 AM

Yea - it was the owners and management that didn't show up at the dead line.  Buttheads.  So now 18500 folks are umemployed - the products will be sold, and other companies will produce at a profit for those products that are sold/viable.

But if the employees (actually more employees) had shown up 18500 would still have jobs.  So their (the employees) decision not to show up and work did indeed cost them, and their co-workers their jobs. 

And that is the case even if the mean owners/managers/employers were woefully inept.  If the workers had shown up the company was prepared to go forward.  Not asinine, just the fact.  Workers chose - and it is a free country.  Their right. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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#17 : November 17, 2012, 10:54:13 AM

Yea - it was the owners and management that didn't show up at the dead line.  Buttheads.  So now 18500 folks are umemployed - the products will be sold, and other companies will produce at a profit for those products that are sold/viable.

But if the employees (actually more employees) had shown up 18500 would still have jobs.  So their (the employees) decision not to show up and work did indeed cost them, and their co-workers their jobs. 

And that is the case even if the mean owners/managers/employers were woefully inept.  If the workers had shown up the company was prepared to go forward.  Not asinine, just the fact.  Workers chose - and it is a free country.  Their right.

Of course you are right on a surface level. The employees striking did lead to the company closing it's doors, at this particular time. But clearly, even had the strike not occurred, Hostess' days were numbered. There were absolutely zero changes made to the company's business model that addressed it's inadequacies the first time they went bankrupt, which is why it only took another 7 years for them to go bankrupt again despite worker concessions in the first round of bankruptcy lowering their operating costs. At what point is it not just the fault of the workers? At what point is it management's responsibility to actually change it's direction to adapt to changes in the market in an effort to increase profitability instead of just constantly placing the burden on the workforce by looking at reducing overhead as a means of increasing profitability? The workers taking another pay cut wouldn't have made people buy more Twinkies.


dbucfan

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#18 : November 17, 2012, 10:56:47 AM

Yea - it was the owners and management that didn't show up at the dead line.  Buttheads.  So now 18500 folks are umemployed - the products will be sold, and other companies will produce at a profit for those products that are sold/viable.

But if the employees (actually more employees) had shown up 18500 would still have jobs.  So their (the employees) decision not to show up and work did indeed cost them, and their co-workers their jobs. 

And that is the case even if the mean owners/managers/employers were woefully inept.  If the workers had shown up the company was prepared to go forward.  Not asinine, just the fact.  Workers chose - and it is a free country.  Their right.

Of course you are right on a surface level.
That's all the point I am making.  The employees/union members decided.  That is their right.  Hope they understood the consequences. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CalcuttaRain

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#19 : November 17, 2012, 11:03:45 AM

Yea - it was the owners and management that didn't show up at the dead line.  Buttheads.  So now 18500 folks are umemployed - the products will be sold, and other companies will produce at a profit for those products that are sold/viable.

But if the employees (actually more employees) had shown up 18500 would still have jobs.  So their (the employees) decision not to show up and work did indeed cost them, and their co-workers their jobs. 

And that is the case even if the mean owners/managers/employers were woefully inept.  If the workers had shown up the company was prepared to go forward.  Not asinine, just the fact.  Workers chose - and it is a free country.  Their right.

Of course you are right on a surface level.


Hahahahaahah.  CBW you are too much . . . very entertaining if nothing else

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dbucfan

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#20 : November 17, 2012, 11:24:30 AM

I am not about to get into the free enterprise/free market discussion that would lead to a businesses that no longer producing a desired product will disappear - as that would indeed lead to a discussion about the green energy investments made by the current administration to its' friends.  Now - if someone with an appreciation for Hostess products was indeed in the Executive Branch surely a few hundred million or a billion could have been found - with an idea to make the world a better place, a healthier place (think wonder bread) solving the insolvency concerns that have risen due to the change in market place. 

Because one can't change the marketplace - it (the marketplace) does that based upon the desires/needs of consumers...  well if you want it to work that is how things happen...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CalcuttaRain

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#21 : November 17, 2012, 11:26:30 AM

I am not about to get into the free enterprise/free market discussion that would lead to a businesses that no longer producing a desired product will disappear - as that would indeed lead to a discussion about the green energy investments made by the current administration to its' friends.  Now - if someone with an appreciation for Hostess products was indeed in the Executive Branch surely a few hundred million or a billion could have been found - with an idea to make the world a better place, a healthier place (think wonder bread) solving the insolvency concerns that have risen due to the change in market place. 

LOL

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#22 : November 17, 2012, 11:27:23 AM

Only in the weird world of union leadership is the solution to being on a sinking boat to just sink it yourself.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dbucfan

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#23 : November 17, 2012, 11:28:10 AM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Bucman

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#24 : November 17, 2012, 11:31:03 AM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.


dbucfan

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#25 : November 17, 2012, 11:33:36 AM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.
I think I read or saw where is trying to get his weight down... he has a couple of years - and if he did he would be the role model.... I don't think he is particularly rich - don't think the plutocracy of CBW's republican party would permit him to be both a health role model and less than incredibly rich...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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#26 : November 17, 2012, 11:50:45 AM

I am not about to get into the free enterprise/free market discussion that would lead to a businesses that no longer producing a desired product will disappear - as that would indeed lead to a discussion about the green energy investments made by the current administration to its' friends.  Now - if someone with an appreciation for Hostess products was indeed in the Executive Branch surely a few hundred million or a billion could have been found - with an idea to make the world a better place, a healthier place (think wonder bread) solving the insolvency concerns that have risen due to the change in market place. 

Is this a serious response? Because it seems more like a deflection to me.


CBWx2

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#27 : November 17, 2012, 11:52:54 AM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.
I think I read or saw where is trying to get his weight down... he has a couple of years - and if he did he would be the role model.... I don't think he is particularly rich - don't think the plutocracy of CBW's republican party would permit him to be both a health role model and less than incredibly rich...

Ah, I see. You've moved on from wanting to engage in grown up conversations and graduated to wanting to enagage in nothing more than VinPB&J style pot shots. Congrats sir, you are now someone I no longer take seriously.


CalcuttaRain

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#28 : November 17, 2012, 12:00:28 PM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.
I think I read or saw where is trying to get his weight down... he has a couple of years - and if he did he would be the role model.... I don't think he is particularly rich - don't think the plutocracy of CBW's republican party would permit him to be both a health role model and less than incredibly rich...

Ah, I see. You've moved on from wanting to engage in grown up conversations and graduated to wanting to enagage in nothing more than VinPB&J style pot shots. Congrats sir, you are now someone I no longer take seriously.


irony . . .  drip . . . drip . . .  drip . . . .drip

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dbucfan

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#29 : November 17, 2012, 12:00:43 PM

My participation on this board is not limited to addressing posts to you CBW.  I had no idea this was a no fun zone when responding to others - in this case Vince and Legend. 

And as for your 'grown up conversations' - too much name calling, denigration of others and labeling from you CBW.  Not interested in going there with you as in the past we have had some good conversations without such.  I will be very specific should I direct a post to you.  Otherwise it might be best you ignore me if that fits better. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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