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JavaRay

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#15 : November 17, 2012, 08:57:30 AM

Bucs had that Raiders game won until Caddy went down with an injury.   Considering the D was borderline worthless those last 4 games, Gruden did a good job.   Far better than Raheem in 2011.


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#16 : November 17, 2012, 09:02:21 AM

Bucs had that Raiders game won until Caddy went down with an injury.   Considering the D was borderline worthless those last 4 games, Gruden did a good job.   Far better than Raheem in 2011.

Against the Falcons, he started Brain "elbow-tendinitis" Greise, who hadnt had any reps with the team for a few weeks at a gamtime decision. Dumb. I dont care if Mccown was your other option. That was boneheaded

Show No MRSA..

FIRE SCHIANO!!!!

Its so hard for me to sit back on this forum, lookin at a guy on here, holler in\' my name!  When last year i spent more on 5 electric bills from this side of the country to the other, than you made! You\'re talkin to the Rolex wearing, diamond earring wearing, kiss-stealin, WOOOO!, wheelin dealin\', CTS drivin, jet-flyin sonofagun.. And I\'m havin a hard time holding these alligators down! WOOOO!

JavaRay

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#17 : November 17, 2012, 09:03:36 AM

McCown would have lost that game big time.  Griese almost won it on the road in overtime.   Good decision.


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#18 : November 17, 2012, 09:59:17 AM

Geniuses don't get fired and 9-7 records in the 6th and 7th seasons are nothing to brag about for a veteran team. Kiffin's Defenses were just as much responsible for any success Gruden's teams had. The "genius" had one team rank #10 in offense. There is nothing impressive about that.

NOBODY stood up for him when he was fired. He wasn't loved, admired, or respected, by his players. They couldn't trust anything he said. The same could probably be said for the coaching staff as well.

McKay got him enough offensive firepower to win one SB, but it was all downhill from there. Al Davis supplied the talent in Oakland. Gruden isn't even a decent OC. He got lucky in situations and talent developed by coaches who knew how to teach. Then his luck ran out when even the owners got tired of his BS.

Raheem and Dominik restocked the cupboard, and Dominik hired coaches who can teach. Schiano is already loved, admired, and respected by his players. The Bucs will win consistently year after year under his leadership. Schiano doesn't have the ego issues Gruden has. He actually cares about the people around him. He's Tony Dungy plus discipline. It's a winning culture.

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#19 : November 17, 2012, 10:07:11 AM

The average NFL career is about 3 years.  Gruden had his faults and this was one of them.  I thought Dominick was there the whole time.

So was the janitor. Your point?

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#20 : November 17, 2012, 10:50:55 AM

Geniuses don't get fired and 9-7 records in the 6th and 7th seasons are nothing to brag about for a veteran team. Kiffin's Defenses were just as much responsible for any success Gruden's teams had. The "genius" had one team rank #10 in offense. There is nothing impressive about that.

NOBODY stood up for him when he was fired. He wasn't loved, admired, or respected, by his players. They couldn't trust anything he said. The same could probably be said for the coaching staff as well.

McKay got him enough offensive firepower to win one SB, but it was all downhill from there. Al Davis supplied the talent in Oakland. Gruden isn't even a decent OC. He got lucky in situations and talent developed by coaches who knew how to teach. Then his luck ran out when even the owners got tired of his BS.

Raheem and Dominik restocked the cupboard, and Dominik hired coaches who can teach. Schiano is already loved, admired, and respected by his players. The Bucs will win consistently year after year under his leadership. Schiano doesn't have the ego issues Gruden has. He actually cares about the people around him. He's Tony Dungy plus discipline. It's a winning culture.

That's a pretty strong statement Sparky. One that I mostly agree with though. However, I honestly don't think Rah had anything much to do with the talent on the team, I think Dominik had full control of player procurement during those years, not sure about that under Schiano, from what I gather, coach seems to have a good amount of input in drafting at the moment.

Gruden's biggest fault from what I gather is that after the first couple of years, the fact that he said one thing to a players face and either did something else or said something else behind their back is what finally did Gruden in. Eventually that sort of thing catches up to you and when the players tune you out, owners have no choice but to find someone else. Does anyone remember what the Oakland players said about Gruden leaving? Go back and read some of that stuff and maybe people will realize that Gruden's time in Tampa was always going to be limited.

Also, while he may have worked well with Bruce Allen, it's apparent in retrospect that Gruden/Allen as talent evaluators were horrible. While I'll concede that the Bucs had their hands tied in the two years after we won the super bowl due to the draft picks that Oakland got for signing Gruden, every draft seemed less and less effective as the Gru/Allen team stayed together. I'm not sure if that's because of the people that scouted the prospects or because they constantly choose players that only had one season of production (and often with personal problems) over players that had consistent college production that might not had as high of a ceiling.

Anyway, no matter what it is, it's water under the bridge. Isn't it about time we stop talking about this? Gruden was a good coach for Tampa for a while, but Schiano appears to be the right man at the right time for now, much as Gruden was in 2002. The difference, as I see it, is that years from now, no matter what happens with Tampa, players will still believe that Schiano was straight with them at all times.

JMO.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#21 : November 17, 2012, 04:02:55 PM

The average NFL career is about 3 years.  Gruden had his faults and this was one of them.  I thought Dominick was there the whole time.

So was the janitor. Your point?
Was the janitor on the draft team?

tripblood

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#22 : November 17, 2012, 04:27:14 PM

The average NFL career is about 3 years.  Gruden had his faults and this was one of them.  I thought Dominick was there the whole time.

So was the janitor. Your point?
Was the janitor on the draft team?

That appears to have been the case

Show No MRSA..

FIRE SCHIANO!!!!

Its so hard for me to sit back on this forum, lookin at a guy on here, holler in\' my name!  When last year i spent more on 5 electric bills from this side of the country to the other, than you made! You\'re talkin to the Rolex wearing, diamond earring wearing, kiss-stealin, WOOOO!, wheelin dealin\', CTS drivin, jet-flyin sonofagun.. And I\'m havin a hard time holding these alligators down! WOOOO!

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#23 : November 17, 2012, 04:39:17 PM

     The Glazer's brought Gruden in at a very high price to do what Dungy appeared incapable or unwilling to do, spiff up our offense just enough to get us that coveted Lombardi. No one expected it to happen in year 1, but ya never know how things will fall. We really weren't a dominant team in 2002; actually lost TWICE to the Saints. After 2002, for 6 more years, something always waylaid Gruden's Bucs on their way to their next Super Bowl.
     I would expect McKay/Allen/Gruden to have hit on a few more draft picks than FIVE in 7 years tho'; that is really poor.
     Chucky did what he was hired to do, but the task of rebuilding was seemingly not in the Bucs staff's makeup...

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#24 : November 17, 2012, 04:51:24 PM

Here we go again. The same old Anti-Gruden crap from some of you. It doesn't matter that we're in our fourth post-Gruden season. Some of you keep beating the dead horse over and over and over. It's a big part of wny many don't go to Bucs games anymore. The team may be exciting, but YOU are boring. I'm not going to retype what I've typed 100 times over in these threads. The Bucs are fun right now. Schiano's doing a good job and a lot of guys are interesting on this team. But to coin an old term, many of you are a DRAG.

In Verner We Trust

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#25 : November 17, 2012, 04:54:09 PM

Agree. Keep gruden in the past where he belongs. I know that's hard for some to do though.

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#26 : November 17, 2012, 05:06:53 PM

buc fans witching about a coach - from 4 years ago.  lol - enjoy what Schiano is doing

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#27 : November 17, 2012, 05:38:30 PM

Java has a point.

....at least gruden is earning a paycheck, unlike that ST player he always mentions.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

1sparkybuc

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#28 : November 17, 2012, 05:54:20 PM

Geniuses don't get fired and 9-7 records in the 6th and 7th seasons are nothing to brag about for a veteran team. Kiffin's Defenses were just as much responsible for any success Gruden's teams had. The "genius" had one team rank #10 in offense. There is nothing impressive about that.

NOBODY stood up for him when he was fired. He wasn't loved, admired, or respected, by his players. They couldn't trust anything he said. The same could probably be said for the coaching staff as well.

McKay got him enough offensive firepower to win one SB, but it was all downhill from there. Al Davis supplied the talent in Oakland. Gruden isn't even a decent OC. He got lucky in situations and talent developed by coaches who knew how to teach. Then his luck ran out when even the owners got tired of his BS.

Raheem and Dominik restocked the cupboard, and Dominik hired coaches who can teach. Schiano is already loved, admired, and respected by his players. The Bucs will win consistently year after year under his leadership. Schiano doesn't have the ego issues Gruden has. He actually cares about the people around him. He's Tony Dungy plus discipline. It's a winning culture.

That's a pretty strong statement Sparky. One that I mostly agree with though. However, I honestly don't think Rah had anything much to do with the talent on the team, I think Dominik had full control of player procurement during those years, not sure about that under Schiano, from what I gather, coach seems to have a good amount of input in drafting at the moment.

Gruden's biggest fault from what I gather is that after the first couple of years, the fact that he said one thing to a players face and either did something else or said something else behind their back is what finally did Gruden in. Eventually that sort of thing catches up to you and when the players tune you out, owners have no choice but to find someone else. Does anyone remember what the Oakland players said about Gruden leaving? Go back and read some of that stuff and maybe people will realize that Gruden's time in Tampa was always going to be limited.

Also, while he may have worked well with Bruce Allen, it's apparent in retrospect that Gruden/Allen as talent evaluators were horrible. While I'll concede that the Bucs had their hands tied in the two years after we won the super bowl due to the draft picks that Oakland got for signing Gruden, every draft seemed less and less effective as the Gru/Allen team stayed together. I'm not sure if that's because of the people that scouted the prospects or because they constantly choose players that only had one season of production (and often with personal problems) over players that had consistent college production that might not had as high of a ceiling.

Anyway, no matter what it is, it's water under the bridge. Isn't it about time we stop talking about this? Gruden was a good coach for Tampa for a while, but Schiano appears to be the right man at the right time for now, much as Gruden was in 2002. The difference, as I see it, is that years from now, no matter what happens with Tampa, players will still believe that Schiano was straight with them at all times.

JMO.

Raheem is responsible for Freeman being here. IMO, Freeman is the one and only franchise QB in our history. McKay sabotaged the team on his way out of town, no doubt. Allen fixed the cap situation but struck out consistently in the draft. Too much was wasted on veterans on their last legs. Most of the talent on this roster is from the last three years and Schiano knows what to do with it. Not sure that he ranks as a genius just yet, but he's off to a great start. Gruden certainly was no offensive genius in his tenure here.

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#29 : November 17, 2012, 06:04:20 PM

The average NFL career is about 3 years.  Gruden had his faults and this was one of them.  I thought Dominick was there the whole time.

So was the janitor. Your point?
Was the janitor on the draft team?

I'm constantly amused when people try to insinuate that everyone but GruAllen was responsible for our poor drafting.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?
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