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#255 : December 04, 2012, 02:59:34 PM

In his 4 bad games this year, he has 8 TD's and 6 INT's...
So in Freeman's 4 worst games he threw 8 TD's and 6 INT's. What would happen if he had Eli Manning's 4 worst games and threw 1 TD and 6 INT's?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#256 : December 04, 2012, 03:01:22 PM

In his 4 bad games this year, he has 8 TD's and 6 INT's...
So in Freeman's 4 worst games he threw 8 TD's and 6 INT's. What would happen if he had Eli Manning's 4 worst games and threw 1 TD and 6 INT's?

Then hed really not be the franchise QB :)

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#257 : December 04, 2012, 03:01:30 PM


Do Eli's best games come into comparison as well, or is this a one-sided deal?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#258 : December 04, 2012, 03:05:42 PM


Do Eli's best games come into comparison as well, or is this a one-sided deal?

Thusly, making my point that much more clear.


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#259 : December 04, 2012, 03:12:06 PM


Do Eli's best games come into comparison as well, or is this a one-sided deal?
best game(going by games won)
Eli 12 tds to 7 int
Freeman 16 tds to 3 int

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#260 : December 04, 2012, 03:13:23 PM

In his 4 bad games this year, he has 8 TD's and 6 INT's...
So in Freeman's 4 worst games he threw 8 TD's and 6 INT's. What would happen if he had Eli Manning's 4 worst games and threw 1 TD and 6 INT's?

Eli's had enough games logged and enough strong performances to be labeled a franchise QB.  Like you, or someone else already said, all QB's have bad games and stretches.  Eli isn't elite like Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, and Brees for that reason, but he is a franchise QB.  Freeman isn't at the Eli-level yet.  Do I want him to?  Certainly.  I'm skeptical that he does, but I'm sure hoping he does.  I don't need or expect him to be "Elite", you don't need to be that good to win Super Bowls, but you need to at least be on the Cutler, Eli, Roethlisber, Schaub level to do so.  Freeman isn't there yet.

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#261 : December 04, 2012, 03:13:57 PM


I must have imagined those super bowls.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#262 : December 04, 2012, 03:14:44 PM

To be fair, I agree that its still too early to be sold on the kid as the Franchise guy. He is playing better this year and all but hes still losing to good teams. Until he beats them, I think its fair to keep the criticism up. I do think he will get several other chances to prove to us that he is the franchise guy but until he beats a good team, the criticism is fair.

He's beaten NO, ATL, GB and what was an up and coming Minnesota team on the road. And he has been competitive against a number of other good teams.  But none of that counts, right?

Yes but I was really talking about this year. I know the defense doesnt help us right now but it would be nice to see Freeman defeat one of the best teams in the league. Maybe its asking too much right now but I still want to see it.

I think winning out and winning the wildcard game would do wonders to fortify his credibility. But I also, think it realistic to say you can build your franchise around the guy and expect to be successful for years to come, based on what he has done so far. 

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#263 : December 04, 2012, 03:21:46 PM

To be fair, I agree that its still too early to be sold on the kid as the Franchise guy. He is playing better this year and all but hes still losing to good teams. Until he beats them, I think its fair to keep the criticism up. I do think he will get several other chances to prove to us that he is the franchise guy but until he beats a good team, the criticism is fair.

He's beaten NO, ATL, GB and what was an up and coming Minnesota team on the road. And he has been competitive against a number of other good teams.  But none of that counts, right?

Yes but I was really talking about this year. I know the defense doesnt help us right now but it would be nice to see Freeman defeat one of the best teams in the league. Maybe its asking too much right now but I still want to see it.

I think winning out and winning the wildcard game would do wonders to fortify his credibility. But I also, think it realistic to say you can build your franchise around the guy and expect to be successful for years to come, based on what he has done so far.

I agree it would be great for him to win out. It would be great for the team. If they win out they would likely be in the playoffs. That would be a big positive for him. Im a big supporter of his and am really rooting for him to succeed. I just want to see him beat a good team this year. Hes been so damn close. It will come.

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#264 : December 05, 2012, 03:23:08 PM


I must have imagined those super bowls.

Oh please. That 1st Super Bowl was not won on Eli's back. The Giant's D sacked Brady 5 times that game when he had only been sacked 21 times that whole season, and held the Pats to 45 yards rushing. Aside from that David Tyree miracle catch, Eli had a pretty mediocre game. Not to mention the 20 INT's he threw that season.

Freeman has never played on a team as talented as those Giants teams that won the Super Bowl. You are criticizing an individual player for not having achieved a team accomplishment.



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#265 : December 05, 2012, 03:37:38 PM


A comparison was made between Freeman's worst games and Eli's worst games (not by me). I pointed out that such a comparison was invalid unless you compared their accomplishments as well. That's a criticism of the logic being used, not a slight towards Freeman.

I notice that Super Bowls turns into Super Bowl in your critique. You're very selective in the evidence you wish to consider, aren't you?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#266 : December 05, 2012, 03:48:32 PM

I notice that Super Bowls turns into Super Bowl in your critique. You're very selective in the evidence you wish to consider, aren't you?

Not really. Only if you call factoring in evidence other than the fact that they won the game as being selective. Eli completed 56% of his passes, barely threw for over 3,000 yards, and threw 20 INT's that season. Tony Banks and Trent Dilfer combined for similar numbers the season that Baltimore won the Super Bowl.

Now that 2nd Super Bowl was won on his back, no question. Of course, he was a 30 year old, 8th year veteran by then.


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#267 : December 05, 2012, 04:10:45 PM


Straight up, do you think comparing Freeman's worst games to Eli's worst games is a valid comparison minus a similar comparison of their accomplishments? Don't start your circular bull**CENSORED**, I'm not going to play your little games.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#268 : December 05, 2012, 10:51:49 PM

good freakin' luck with that ......

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#269 : December 05, 2012, 10:59:18 PM

No circular BS = no response.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.
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