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Sailing2smth

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#60 : November 24, 2012, 09:53:14 PM

Not taking anything away from Luck or RGIII, they both are having an excellent rookie season.  The reason why I use the term blasphemous is because they have only played 11 or 12 games thus far.  The other guys you listed in your top 8 are guys that are as old as or older than Freeman.  Hell, look at Cam Newton...phenomenal rookie season, terrible sophomore season. 

TheAman

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#61 : November 24, 2012, 09:56:52 PM

If you're using careers, then you have to say Cutler and Rivers are better than Freeman.  As far as ranking who you'd rather have tomorrow (which is who is the best QB right now is, and is a different discussion than franchise QB), I think it's fair to put RGIII or Luck on the list.

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#62 : November 24, 2012, 10:00:56 PM

Free has what takes to win our way to the playoffs. Tighten up the pass d a little bit and we are almost undefeated. He did what it took in NO game, he is not the one who stepped on the line or got pushed out. I guess I just don't see the franchise label the same as some. Would you trade the franchise qb for an elite, sure, but a brees is more than a franchise qb.

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#63 : November 24, 2012, 10:02:07 PM



BucBalla85

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#64 : November 24, 2012, 10:03:49 PM

Lets wait a while before we label Freeman anything. For now its nice to have some pretty good QB play. Lets hope he keeps it up for the teams sake. Hopefully all the "franchise" and "elite" talk isn't on his mind and is just trying to get better every week. Keep working hard and let all of that stuff work itself out.

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#65 : November 24, 2012, 10:04:07 PM

Free has what takes to win our way to the playoffs. Tighten up the pass d a little bit and we are almost undefeated. He did what it took in NO game, he is not the one who stepped on the line or got pushed out. I guess I just don't see the franchise label the same as some. Would you trade the franchise qb for an elite, sure, but a brees is more than a franchise qb.

My argument though is that a team with a franchise QB wouldn't trade their guy for an elite QB.  Which is why players like Roethlisberger, RGIII and Luck are franchise guys and that, right now, there's some doubt that Freeman is.

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#66 : November 24, 2012, 10:05:51 PM



*WHIFF!* by Larsen on that sack.

lol @ the theme music.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

JavaRay

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#67 : November 24, 2012, 10:10:23 PM

On that pick, it's obvious Underwood isn't that fast.


Benchwarmer#1

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#68 : November 24, 2012, 10:36:46 PM

Tebow- sitting.

Freeman- balling.




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#69 : November 24, 2012, 10:40:15 PM

Before I say yes I want to see what he does next year. Consistency so far has been his issue. 2009 bad Josh, 2010 good Josh, 2011 bad Josh and 2012 good Josh. If he does good next year then there is no doubt, until then we will have to wait and see.

+1

7 or so weeks ago, people (including myself) were not sold for good reason so why should a good 7 weeks or whatever it is change that?

Is he playing well right now? Yes

Did he play well in 2010? Yes

Was he awful last year? Yes

So if you look at his career as a whole (I know, this is tough for most), I still think it's too early to call this guy a "franchise QB."

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#70 : November 24, 2012, 10:43:41 PM

He's a functionable QB.  He didn't look franchise-like for most of the Panther's game until the end, did he?   He's no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, but he's no Byron Leftwich either. I'd say he's about middle of the pack in the NFL right now. Not upper echelon.

That play at the end of the game was unreal. Your right he's not Brady or Rodgers but he's on the outside looking in at 24 years old. He keeps making plays like that he will find himself there.

"There" as in the same category as Brady and/or Rodgers?

If so, no way.

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#71 : November 25, 2012, 12:08:36 AM

You do know that isn't the topic right?  Comparing Morris to Shula is a waste of time - something like comparing a guy who hasn't won anything yet to a guy in the HOF.  I am glad to see you figured out the limitations of your proposition.  Now let Freeman grow into a franchise qb by showing he can win a division title or better.

Sorry for getting back to you so late. All I am saying is circumstances make a difference. Great coaches and HOF talent gave Marino a HUUUGE advantage. If he had started out with the 2009 Bucs we wouldn't be discussing a SB loss a couple of years ago. We would much more likely be having this same topic of conversation with JavaRay saying the best QB on this team is the backup. The situation we have with Freeman is he has posted franchise record numbers in his brief career under less than ideal conditions. Schiano has done an amazing job getting these players prepared to win. Freeman struggled some last week but came through in the clutch. So what. Ryan threw 5 interceptions last week. Eli Manning has played like a rookie for the last month. Sanchez has stunk it up all season. It happens. Freeman has had flashes in the past and has improved steadily over the course of the season. Schiano says he's nowhere near his peak. Imagine that. No QB in the history of the franchise has produced like he has over the last month, and Schiano says he's nowhere near his peak. He may not be elite just yet but he is definitely the best this franchise has ever had. It's just a shame he didn't have Schiano from the very beginning. I'm thinking the Bucs record would be much closer to the record of the team we face tomorrow.

I'm thinking Rex Ryan is kicking himself every time he sees Freeman play.

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#72 : November 25, 2012, 12:09:02 AM

Before I say yes I want to see what he does next year. Consistency so far has been his issue. 2009 bad Josh, 2010 good Josh, 2011 bad Josh and 2012 good Josh. If he does good next year then there is no doubt, until then we will have to wait and see.

+1

7 or so weeks ago, people (including myself) were not sold for good reason so why should a good 7 weeks or whatever it is change that?

Is he playing well right now? Yes

Did he play well in 2010? Yes

Was he awful last year? Yes

So if you look at his career as a whole (I know, this is tough for most), I still think it's too early to call this guy a "franchise QB."
This is the same reason I think it is too early to annoying luck or rg3. Remember cam his first year, look now. Things change fast in the nfl. Maybe you don't give up on your "franchise" guy, for the elite guy, though an upgrade, you trust the franchise guy enough at the position to focus on talent upgrades elsewhere on the team...

Ultimately, the mOre we debate, the more I feel we are splitting hairs and talking semantics, with no clear definition of the term franchise qb.

Do I trust JFree5 with the keys to this offense in the long term??? Yes. Sign him now or at the end of the season. He's young and talented, and has proved he can be the guy. With solid, disciplined down to earth coaching, good scheme, and talent around him, he gets it done. He is my franchise guy, focus on defensive upgrades, te and depth, I trust these coaches to get solid play from josh.

Do I still have a couple lingering doubts??? Yes, but free5 is distancing himself from them and I am a skeptic by nature, anyhow.

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#73 : November 25, 2012, 12:15:40 AM

You do know that isn't the topic right?  Comparing Morris to Shula is a waste of time - something like comparing a guy who hasn't won anything yet to a guy in the HOF.  I am glad to see you figured out the limitations of your proposition.  Now let Freeman grow into a franchise qb by showing he can win a division title or better.

Sorry for getting back to you so late. All I am saying is circumstances make a difference. Great coaches and HOF talent gave Marino a HUUUGE advantage. If he had started out with the 2009 Bucs we wouldn't be discussing a SB loss a couple of years ago. We would much more likely be having this same topic of conversation with JavaRay saying the best QB on this team is the backup. The situation we have with Freeman is he has posted franchise record numbers in his brief career under less than ideal conditions. Schiano has done an amazing job getting these players prepared to win. Freeman struggled some last week but came through in the clutch. So what. Ryan threw 5 interceptions last week. Eli Manning has played like a rookie for the last month. Sanchez has stunk it up all season. It happens. Freeman has had flashes in the past and has improved steadily over the course of the season. Schiano says he's nowhere near his peak. Imagine that. No QB in the history of the franchise has produced like he has over the last month, and Schiano says he's nowhere near his peak. He may not be elite just yet but he is definitely the best this franchise has ever had. It's just a shame he didn't have Schiano from the very beginning. I'm thinking the Bucs record would be much closer to the record of the team we face tomorrow.

I'm thinking Rex Ryan is kicking himself every time he sees Freeman play.
Though I don't want up get into talking about the fish, I agree with both you guys. Freeman has it now, but needs to take it to the next level by 1) getting us to the playoffs (in reach this year) 2) winning the division( tougher but in reach this year, wouldn't it be awesome) and 3) win in the playoffs.

Until those things happen, threads like this wil never end...

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#74 : November 25, 2012, 08:07:02 AM

One thing I have no doubts about---if Schiano had been the HC last year, there would be no ten game losing streak to talk about. Some people deliberately ignore the fact that Freeman actually had personal bests in passing yardage and completion percentage in 2011 despite the collapse of everything around him. In the vast majority of great pairings of a HC and a QB, the HC was there first. Freeman did not have that advantage, but he does benefit from the game experience. Schiano and Sullivan don't have to treat him like a rookie. He's been through the wars. He just hasn't had great leadership until now.

This topic will be a non-issue in the years to come.
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