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QaZ

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#45 : December 03, 2012, 11:34:39 AM

WOW, we talk about integrety and players safety and root for OLers 'knocking a few teeth loose' or defend plays that are clearly against the rules, like touching the ball before being snappeed or LB jumping over the OL hitting the QB AFTER he kneeled down?
How often did the bucs won becauce of Schiano calling an onside kick or a hail marry?

Attacking the kneel down is clearly WITHIN the rules, like tackling someone by grabbing his hair. Not likeing the play does NOT justify breaking the rules after. The refs should do their job, the NFL gave 'em a rule book for, they can not make their own rules.

Look at basketball, late in the 4th Q the trailing team does nothing but foul the other team, in a desperate move to still get a win. Some coaches even ask their players to foul the trailing team to prevent a 3pt shot, rather just allowing two freethrows. Not bush league?

Where was the uproar about Grudens 2pt conversion vs WAS? Nothing but a college move.

I do not like the play, because of risking injuries. Furthermore it allows fluky wins. I want the best team for 60 mins win the game, not 1 that just got lucky on 1 play late in the game. But never would i root for rule breaking reactions to, when the NFL clearly sees the ACTION to be within the rules.

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#46 : December 03, 2012, 11:50:54 AM

It depends on the person. The play isnt for everybody. I personally like it in the aspect that the players arent giving up and finishing the game. I see the aspect of "getting hurt" but theres no different risk in that play than the ones before it. You sign up to play football and you know what your getting into. If your afraid to get hurt go find another sport. Other people see Schiano as "cheap" or "bush league" I see it as a coach who wants his team to fight till the very end. This team doesnt curl up and accept a loss. So I love the play but I would like to see the kneeldown play be taken out and the team just run out the clock instead. That would end this whole nonsense.

BucsnNoles

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#47 : December 03, 2012, 11:54:54 AM

The risk of injury is probably less than that ZBS cut blocking that Denver has used forever.

Also....I like the arena league rules where the clock stops if you get negative yardage.

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#48 : December 03, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

The risk of injury is probably less than that ZBS cut blocking that Denver has used forever.

Also....I like the arena league rules where the clock stops if you get negative yardage.

Agree good post.

QaZ

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#49 : December 03, 2012, 12:06:27 PM

It depends on the person. The play isnt for everybody. I personally like it in the aspect that the players arent giving up and finishing the game. I see the aspect of "getting hurt" but theres no different risk in that play than the ones before it. You sign up to play football and you know what your getting into. If your afraid to get hurt go find another sport. Other people see Schiano as "cheap" or "bush league" I see it as a coach who wants his team to fight till the very end. This team doesnt curl up and accept a loss. So I love the play but I would like to see the kneeldown play be taken out and the team just run out the clock instead. That would end this whole nonsense.

But this is up to the NFL, make rules and enforce 'em. If they would do their job we would have not issue here. No clue how someone could blame Schiano for this. Should we have stopped playing mid 4th Q, because it was unlikely to comeback, to prevent injuries? Stupidly still trying to win is bush league?
What looked like a sure loss, turned out to come down to an onside kick with 2:36 left. You could not call this a miracle would we have come out with a win here.
If there is a coach to be blamed, it's Fox, did not take much and Peyton would have never seen the ball again, with an OT win for the bucs. That was way more likely to happen than us recovering the ball on a kneel down, still Fox almost/pretty much allowed this.

BucBalla85

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#50 : December 03, 2012, 12:11:46 PM

It depends on the person. The play isnt for everybody. I personally like it in the aspect that the players arent giving up and finishing the game. I see the aspect of "getting hurt" but theres no different risk in that play than the ones before it. You sign up to play football and you know what your getting into. If your afraid to get hurt go find another sport. Other people see Schiano as "cheap" or "bush league" I see it as a coach who wants his team to fight till the very end. This team doesnt curl up and accept a loss. So I love the play but I would like to see the kneeldown play be taken out and the team just run out the clock instead. That would end this whole nonsense.

But this is up to the NFL, make rules and enforce 'em. If they would do their job we would have not issue here. No clue how someone could blame Schiano for this. Should we have stopped playing mid 4th Q, because it was unlikely to comeback, to prevent injuries? Stupidly still trying to win is bush league?
What looked like a sure loss, turned out to come down to an onside kick with 2:36 left. You could not call this a miracle would we have come out with a win here.
If there is a coach to be blamed, it's Fox, did not take much and Peyton would have never seen the ball again, with an OT win for the bucs. That was way more likely to happen than us recovering the ball on a kneel down, still Fox almost/pretty much allowed this.

If they would have kept the score that distant then yes it would never have happened. I would have a very big problem with it if it wasnt a winnable game at that point but it was. Thats what people dont seem to understand. If the game is still in reach, you try to win. I agree if this is a "problem" the NFL needs to step in and so far they havent. Until they do, this is an entirely legal play. Schiano will keep running it no matter who thinks its bush leage or cheap. I personally love that attitude.

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#51 : December 03, 2012, 01:14:41 PM

This was always the problem with doing this stuff.  Not that it was illegal, but if I'm an offensive lineman against the Bucs in a kneeldown, I'm thinking that I'm (legally) going to go after the D-lineman's knees if they come after us.  If they feel disrespected, they'll dish it back.  Now, Denver went a little over the top this time, but it's a risk/reward proposition.  If other teams feel the Bucs are disrespecting them, then there is a potential injury concern down the line.

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#52 : December 03, 2012, 01:19:44 PM

This was always the problem with doing this stuff.  Not that it was illegal, but if I'm an offensive lineman against the Bucs in a kneeldown, I'm thinking that I'm (legally) going to go after the D-lineman's knees if they come after us.  If they feel disrespected, they'll dish it back.  Now, Denver went a little over the top this time, but it's a risk/reward proposition.  If other teams feel the Bucs are disrespecting them, then there is a potential injury concern down the line.

Theres always the risk of injury. Plus if they do that, the NFL will look it over and see that they are trying to hurt our players. Thats no go. Our players arent trying to hurt anybody. If the other team is doing that, then thats on them. Not our players.

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#53 : December 03, 2012, 01:24:00 PM

Ok, that's fine.  They'd maybe get fined, though maybe not because cut blocks are perfectly legal, and we'd lose a player for the season.  I think they'd take the tradeoff.

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#54 : December 03, 2012, 01:25:48 PM

Ok, that's fine.  They'd maybe get fined, though maybe not because cut blocks are perfectly legal, and we'd lose a player for the season.  I think they'd take the tradeoff.

If a player gets hurt because a guy is trying to hurt him, hes not getting a fine. Hes getting a suspension. Nobody wants to hurt anybody here.

TheAman

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#55 : December 03, 2012, 01:29:35 PM

Please show me where someone has gotten suspended for a 100% legal hit.

olafberserker

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#56 : December 03, 2012, 01:30:38 PM

bounty gate?

TheAman

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#57 : December 03, 2012, 01:32:22 PM

They were suspended for providing money to injure players.  Don't think anyone who simply collected the bounties got suspended.

Though this is getting twisted.  The point is, if there is a growing perception that the Bucs don't respect their opponents, there are going to be more cheap shots, and more chances of injuries.

BucBalla85

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#58 : December 03, 2012, 01:32:46 PM

Please show me where someone has gotten suspended for a 100% legal hit.

This isnt about doing a legal hit. Its doing the cut block to hurt somebody. That would be your reason for doing this correct? They use the cut block with the intention to hurt then thats no go. You can see that kind of motivation on tape. The problem with what your saying here is nobody is trying to hurt anybody. So the cut block wouldnt be that nasty but one to prevent the guy from bull rushing the line. If hes doing it to hurt guys then its obvious in this situation. Our guys have said they arent trying to hurt anybody. So if you do a cut block with the intention to hurt, you will get suspended. Its just obvious at that point.

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#59 : December 03, 2012, 01:35:39 PM

Ok, so let's say they get suspended.  How does that help us if say, McCoy gets injured game 1 of next year if we're doing this?  It's simply risk/reward.  Of course in a vacuum I love the bullrushing the QB move.  But it's not in a vacuum.  You can't laud the move, and then complain about the cheap shots.  One comes with the other.
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