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JDouble

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#120 : December 06, 2012, 08:01:34 PM

This defense couldn't stop a balloon from flying by them.



Hey balloons are hard to catch!


The Anti-Java

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#121 : December 06, 2012, 08:05:15 PM

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.




Agree with that.  Bucs need to win the final 4.  None of those opponents are world beaters. I am assuming Atlanta plays scrubs.

The first step in building a great team is beating the cellar dwellers.  Then they can add more pieces in the draft and free agency and challenge the best teams in the league.

As far as #5 goes, resign him asap.  What are the options?  Draft someone?  Trade for Alex Smith or Matt Flynn?  No thanks. I still believe we haven't seen the best of Freeman. He is still growing as a QB.

The worse that could happen is the front office strings him along, and he says F-you and doesn't agree to any contract.  Who knows, he could have dreams of being the savior of his hometown Cheifs.

So hopefully he lights it up in the next 4, and the Bucs win out.  If that happens, the decision is easy.


sig pic by chace1986

PewterReportMC....
\\\\\\\"Java, do you understand this a perfect example of why people beg me to suspend or ban you on a daily basis? Are you actually trying to make a point? Seriously what is the reason for even commenting. In fact why do you even bother coming to the boards? What happened to the intelligent poster from years ago?  A real shame. Like the Bucs yesterday, a wasted effort.\\\\\\\"

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#122 : December 06, 2012, 08:15:03 PM

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.




Agree with that.  Bucs need to win the final 4.  None of those opponents are world beaters. I am assuming Atlanta plays scrubs.

The first step in building a great team is beating the cellar dwellers.  Then they can add more pieces in the draft and free agency and challenge the best teams in the league.

As far as #5 goes, resign him asap.  What are the options?  Draft someone?  Trade for Alex Smith or Matt Flynn?  No thanks. I still believe we haven't seen the best of Freeman. He is still growing as a QB.

The worse that could happen is the front office strings him along, and he says F-you and doesn't agree to any contract.  Who knows, he could have dreams of being the savior of his hometown Cheifs.

So hopefully he lights it up in the next 4, and the Bucs win out.  If that happens, the decision is easy.

No doubt. Forget about him leaving in FA. I think they will resign him this offseason unless he has a complete meltdown in the rest of the games. Which is possible but I think he will finish out the year pretty well and get a new contract this offseason. Even if they don't win out. This is what I think will happen.

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#123 : December 06, 2012, 08:31:12 PM

I don't think Freeman deserves a 'payday', as a reward for his performance so far.
His performance gives me the confidence to go with him the next few years, thinking everything else will just be worse. I'm not saying we could/should not have a better QB, nor that Freemans is already the kind of QB i want him to be(to win SBs with), but i dont except him to be an elite QB now. I want him to be a great QB in the future. Yes, better tomorrow than just ina few years, but thats what contracts are made for... for the future. You do not sign J Montana now, because he was an elite QB, unlike Freeman. He is/will not be an elite QB anymore.

You can point at 2011 allday. But what else could Freeman do to erase the doubts other than having a good 2012 season? And thats what he is doing right now, we still do not know for sure what his play will look like in 2013 or 2014. Only in a few years we can say if he was able to produce more season like 2010/'12 or if he is falling back to 2011. But then he can not sign/fire him anymore.  We can not give out contracts in hindsight. We can not wait till Freeman wins a SB, to than finally say he is the guy. But things would be alot easier, would he already have done, no doubt.

Will Freeman lead us to the glory land? i do not know, but this thred is about his extension, and looking at our alternatives and what Freeman could become, there is no other chance than buying into him with this franchise... into a franchise QB.

We do not even know if we can keep Freeman, while some think we have the luxery to disuss his extension.
: December 06, 2012, 08:34:16 PM QaZ

TheAman

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#124 : December 06, 2012, 08:38:34 PM

For those of you saying that Freeman might refuse to sign an extension if we wait, when is the last time that a starting QB left a team when the team wanted to keep him? 

chace1986

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#125 : December 06, 2012, 09:02:18 PM


Playing well enough to beat quality teams and secure a playoff spot > being near the top of "several important statistics in passing"

several important statistics in passing = cherry picked stats that don't tell the whole story

whole story = In 3.5 years, Freeman has not been able to step up and deliver against quality opponents in the middle of a playoff run.

But we are talking about extending FREMANN, not the WHOLE team.
So why are you bringing up team accomplishments, while calling pointing at indiviual stats cherry picking?

Were those teams in 2010 and 2011 PO bound, just one quality QB away from the big thing? Why is M Stafford already out of it now, with still 4 weeks to go? What did Eli do between those two SBs? Why is Marino still THE quaterback , having the best coach in the history of the game at the sideline, but not winning one single ring?

I'm going backt to 2010, i do not get why i should give Freeman any more credit for 2010, had K2 not draw that flag in week 16. We were 10-6, and missed the PO, SEA got in with 7-9, did they have a better QB? Freeman did enough to have a shot at sneaking in the POs, like Rodgers did, or Eli twice. Just because of a few coincidence i do not see why i should see him as a guy keeping us out of the POs. Yes, he did not carry us to an undisputed  PO appearence yet , like Ryan did multiple times or Eli and Rodgers each once . But aint it funny that all those team went winless after?

I think he is good enough, this team has enough other holes to fill, before i would see him as THE weakness of THIS team. Sure, a better QB would help, but why risk getting a worse one, why waste draft picks and money searching for one, when you could use them somewhere else,  f/e improving our sub par defense.

There were no team accomplishments.

While Freeman playing better in 2011 may have only resulted in 2-3 more wins...in 2010, Freeman had chances to win games against the Lions and the Falcons, and he failed to step it up. Say what you want to about the Winslow PI call, or Stovall's missed tackle, but the fact is that Freeman plays the most important position on the field and he did step up to the plate to help secure the win. Sure, they lost as a team, but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr.

So if the defense can't get a stop or if the special teams allow a return for 6, it's on the QB? Got it! And Marino wasn't as good as Kurt Warner because he never won the SB, right?

To the first part of your post....Freeman's int to Grimes sealed the victory for the Falcons. Freeman failed to step it up at the end of the game. Period.

To the second part....nice stretch. You showed that you completely missed the point.

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

So R Wilson is great, the star alingned that day for him. But how many chances did Freeman choke away under similar circumstances? Why did he not put them away earlier in the game, CHI just scored 17 points that game?

Don't get me wrong i'm high on Wilson, wasn't so high on Freeman when he came out. But i do not see how russell is already THE guy, while Freeman should not atleast still have a decent shot at it, when Freeman is not even 1 year older. When you say he already has 3.5 years in the NFL, he also did not spend 5 years in college to be as ready as in his early years.

Who said Russell Wilson was great? I don't know whether Wilson is the "guy" for the hawks...but I do know that he was able to go to a quality opponent and play absolutely clutch late in the game. I am not confident Freeman could do the same.

To the bold, that is very confusing. Maybe you should type things out in your first language and I can just throw it into google translate.

To the last sentence in your retort....3.5 yrs in the NFL >>> 5 years in college. I lol'd at that one.

Yes I know, the win at Carolina wasn't against a real NFL defense, so it doesn't count! 80 yards in less than 60 seconds a two point conversion and a td in the first drive OT. Yes, I see why you question his ability to function under pressure.  smh

Do you have reading comprehension problems? A comeback win against a 2 win team is not the same as a comeback win against a division leading team in a hostile environment. If you cant see the point that I was making without seeing red cause someone dared criticize Freeman, then we have nothing more to talk about.
: December 06, 2012, 09:06:34 PM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

QaZ

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#126 : December 06, 2012, 09:03:43 PM

For those of you saying that Freeman might refuse to sign an extension if we wait, when is the last time that a starting QB left a team when the team wanted to keep him?

To answer your question... 2005 D Brees.

SD had a 'backup' plan, franchise tagged him before, but they wanted him back after that shoulder injury. While Rivers might not be the worst QB, i would say 'toying' around with Brees did not worked out. I would be pleased to atleast have a guy like Rivers though, just i have my doubts we atleast could be that 'lucky'.
Brees left for NO after Katrina, while having quite loaded team in SD, debateable how much faith he had in beating out the 1st rd pick Rivers, but you could also question him for not even believing in himself.

I do not know if we can be as sexy as SD, when even Brees left for a team like NO. Why should Freeman waste his career for blackouts and with one of the worst defenses in the NFL?

TheAman

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#127 : December 06, 2012, 09:05:10 PM

What?  They didn't want Brees.  They drafted Rivers in the first round.  They were never planning on resigning Brees in 2005.  Unless you're saying that garbage contract they offered him counts as wanting him.  No team in recent memory has lost a starting QB when they actually went after him, as opposed to drafting his replacement and trying to get a cheap deal for him.
: December 06, 2012, 09:08:17 PM TheAman

chace1986

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#128 : December 06, 2012, 09:10:35 PM

While some are ready to judge Freeman on what he has done from age 20-24 on a talentless team and horrible coaching and say it isn't good enough, I'm saying give him a 6 year deal and see what he does from age 25-30 with great coaching and the weapons we have already surrounded him with this year.

I really really hate this line of thinking.  If you think Freeman is THE guy, and indisputably will be a top 10 guy for the next 5 seasons, then I have no problem with saying extend him.  However, if you are unsure about him and say "extend him, let's see what happens", there is almost nothing worse you can do to your franchise.  What if he doesn't have that great coaching?  If he needs Sullivan to be good, what happens if he takes one of the jobs he's already being rumored for?  I'm all for waiting and seeing, and asking Free to prove he can be that guy, rather than giving him an extension based on beating up on the bottom-dwellers.

Couldn't agree more.


The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.




Agree with that.  Bucs need to win the final 4.  None of those opponents are world beaters. I am assuming Atlanta plays scrubs.

The first step in building a great team is beating the cellar dwellers.  Then they can add more pieces in the draft and free agency and challenge the best teams in the league.

As far as #5 goes, resign him asap.  What are the options?  Draft someone?  Trade for Alex Smith or Matt Flynn?  No thanks. I still believe we haven't seen the best of Freeman. He is still growing as a QB.

The worse that could happen is the front office strings him along, and he says F-you and doesn't agree to any contract.  Who knows, he could have dreams of being the savior of his hometown Cheifs.

So hopefully he lights it up in the next 4, and the Bucs win out.  If that happens, the decision is easy.

Options are, lets see what he does next year and if he continues his same inconsistent bullcrap...then adios. If he does well and gets us to the post season..then resign him.

If he wants to say F-you and go try and be a savior of KC, so be it. I would rather him string them along for years than for him to (potentially) do the same to us.
: December 06, 2012, 09:18:00 PM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#129 : December 06, 2012, 09:12:53 PM

This defense couldn't stop a balloon from flying by them.

This offense however, has broken Buc records all across the board.

Who's to blame for losses? Does freeman have to play LB too? Is there any way vj could cover as a CB? ...seriously though, freeman would be light years better with some defensive help. Stopping the run is something anyone can do with the right type of play calls. Dom absolutely needs to make a trade for a CB or DT, and whichever one he doesn't trade/fa for, he should obtain the other via draft day.

Freeman has done enough, IMO, to get his payday. I don't ever want to relive the doug Williams days. History has a funny way of repeating itself. Count me out of that mess and re-sign the guy already.

Defensive help fixes accuracy issues. Got it.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

QaZ

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#130 : December 06, 2012, 09:19:26 PM


To the first part of your post....Freeman's int to Grimes sealed the victory for the Falcons. Freeman failed to step it up at the end of the game. Period.

To the second part....nice stretch. You showed that you completely missed the point.

How many Games did Peyton lose with an INT on last play? Or Favre?
What was the reason for? Maybe it was the QB atleast keeping it close, forcing one last chance. Where was the defense for the rest of the game? How often did the D# choke away a game winnging drive of Freeman?

Do we really need to give up a FG to WAS earlier this season? But you can also blame Freeman for letting it come down to this, not putting them away earlier, atleast playing decent during 1st half....teams win/lose games.

wreck ship

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#131 : December 06, 2012, 09:25:35 PM

yes the Bucs should sign him to a long term contract. It's a vote of confidence in the team as a whole especially for the offensive cohesion ie.matty melt/failcons.
Freeman is on his 3rd offense in 4 yrs and playing w/o his pro-bowl guards and still getting a positive mark from the sports media. sign the kid

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QaZ

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#132 : December 06, 2012, 09:28:49 PM

What?  They didn't want Brees.  They drafted Rivers in the first round.  They were never planning on resigning Brees in 2005.  Unless you're saying that garbage contract they offered him counts as wanting him.  No team in recent memory has lost a starting QB when they actually went after him, as opposed to drafting his replacement and trying to get a cheap deal for him.

And how did this desperate search for an elite QB work out? As far as i know NO won a SB since, not SD.

If you wanna wait, draft or trade for a possible replacement, franchise tag him after his contract is over, this us what could be our future. Lets hope we atleast come away with a guy like Rivers.
Do we really want him, if we wait till the end of next year? How often did teams wait this long?

chace1986

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#133 : December 06, 2012, 09:31:04 PM

QaZ. I am gonna have to put you on ignore, buddy. Not because I disagree with you, but your posts give a headache. They are pretty hard to read.

I'm gonna try and translate your last post. It doesn't matter how many INTs Peyton or Favre threw to end the game. That's deflecting from the point. I'm not saying that Freeman deserves the full blame for that loss....but he did fail to step up and win that game when given the opportunity. You can keep trying to sidestep around that all you want to, but I'm not gonna play musical chairs with you again. Conversations usually go nowhere with you because you don't know how to stay on point.

The Redskins game. Not sure where that came from. Freeman played awful in the first half, and played well in the second half. Freeman shares some of the blame for that loss for not playing a complete game.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

TheAman

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#134 : December 06, 2012, 09:34:02 PM

What?  They didn't want Brees.  They drafted Rivers in the first round.  They were never planning on resigning Brees in 2005.  Unless you're saying that garbage contract they offered him counts as wanting him.  No team in recent memory has lost a starting QB when they actually went after him, as opposed to drafting his replacement and trying to get a cheap deal for him.

And how did this desperate search for an elite QB work out? As far as i know NO won a SB since, not SD.

If you wanna wait, draft or trade for a possible replacement, franchise tag him after his contract is over, this us what could be our future. Lets hope we atleast come away with a guy like Rivers.
Do we really want him, if we wait till the end of next year? How often did teams wait this long?

What does that have to do with anything?  People are saying that if we make a reasonable offer to Freeman, he's going to turn it down and become a FA.  I'm saying that has never happened in recent memory.  You're right, San Diego, in retrospect, made the wrong move, but I'm not arguing they made the right move.  I'm saying that waiting, even franchising Freeman, and then offering him a long term deal, if it's a fair deal, will get him to stay.  Or if he doesn't stay, it'd be the first time in a LONG time.
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