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TBayXXXVII

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#225 : December 07, 2012, 11:18:48 AM


Your reading comprehension is failing you again. I never said that Freeman can't perform in clutch situations. I even gave him credit for leading 4th qtr comebacks early on the in 2010 season.

"but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr."

That's fine is you disagree with my view of Freeman's performance, but with each post, it just shows that you missed the point on what I was saying. Which is fine, because it's obvious you can't approach Freeman discussions objectively.

Freeman can play well in certain types of pressure. I never said that he was incapable of the types of wins that he helped secure in Charlotte. What I said was,
"A comeback win against a 2 win team is not the same as a comeback win against a division leading team in a hostile environment. "

IMO, what Russell Wilson did this past Sunday was different than what Freeman did in Charlotte nearly 3 weeks ago. If you disagree, then so be it, but I'm not gonna go around in circles on this issue anymore.

..and of course holding the Bears to 17 points contributed to the W, I never stated anything that would conflict with that.

Who did CHI beat? Is CHI defense that much better than CARs, y/p and 3rd% disagree here. Freeman can just play vs their D#, not his fault CAR has no O# and by this does not win often, Just like R Wilson can not be just credited for his D# stepping up, and CHI getting wins also because of its O#, a unit Wilson did not face directly.

team win/lose games. But in 2010 we just won 10 games because of our weak shedule, right?

Yes.  Over a 20 game span, this team was 14-6 before it went on a 10-game losing streak.  What 4-2 team quits on a coach?  What 14-6 team quits on a coach?  The only team that quits on a 4-2 / 14-6 HC is a team who knew the wins were benificiaries of a soft schedule.  Otherwise, how can a coach so bad for 36 games, figure out how to win 14 out of 20 in the middle?  After 2010 there were a lot of people saying how good a coach Morris was.  How good the players were (overall).  How good the management was.  Then 2011 happens and the coach is fired.  So, if the only problem was the head coach, then it's evidence that 2010 was a fluke.  It's evidence because the players were good enough to win 10 games only when they had the 9th easiest schedule in the NFL but not good enough to win against a top 10 schedules in 2009 (#1) and 2011 (#8).  You can't have 2 terrible seasons (3-13 and 4-12), and say the coach was the problem when the right dab smack in the middle of those two terrible seasons, that same coach got you 10 wins.

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#226 : December 07, 2012, 11:34:34 AM

Give Freeman 8 years and 100 million and call it a franchise.

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#227 : December 07, 2012, 11:36:40 AM


Yes.  Over a 20 game span, this team was 14-6 before it went on a 10-game losing streak.  What 4-2 team quits on a coach?  What 14-6 team quits on a coach?  The only team that quits on a 4-2 / 14-6 HC is a team who knew the wins were benificiaries of a soft schedule.  Otherwise, how can a coach so bad for 36 games, figure out how to win 14 out of 20 in the middle?  After 2010 there were a lot of people saying how good a coach Morris was.  How good the players were (overall).  How good the management was.  Then 2011 happens and the coach is fired.  So, if the only problem was the head coach, then it's evidence that 2010 was a fluke.  It's evidence because the players were good enough to win 10 games only when they had the 9th easiest schedule in the NFL but not good enough to win against a top 10 schedules in 2009 (#1) and 2011 (#8).  You can't have 2 terrible seasons (3-13 and 4-12), and say the coach was the problem when the right dab smack in the middle of those two terrible seasons, that same coach got you 10 wins.

NO had an easier shedule in 2010, SEA even more. Both made the PO, we beat both @their house in december.
GBs opponents had TWO more wins than us, and guess what happens had we won vs DET in week 16(not much of an accomplishment) but lost @NO in week 17(not surprsing)? Should we give out more credit to the team, had this happen, they had a stronger shedule, right?

We also had the youngest team in the history of the game on the lowest payroll. If its so much about strengt of shedule, having weapons etc , why did they still won 10, more than SEA,  just as much as GB and one less than NO?

Somewhere you have to give out credit or blame, if you wanna stick to your logic.

You point out excuses for their 'success' and ignore the ones explainging their failure. And on other hand you do the exact opposite for anyone but TB, they are no excuses for their success, just excuse for their failure.

Why is a team, plagued by injuries, all of a sudden not loosing 10 straight anymore? Is E Wright such an upgrade, how long did Nicks play again. Why is Vjax playing better than ever before, despite having Rivers as his QB? Apparently Raheem did not hold 'em back.

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#228 : December 07, 2012, 11:52:13 AM

Guys I think your wasting your time. They wont be happy with Freeman until he gets this team into the playoffs. Which is understandable. Its not like nobody else wants to get into the playoffs. We just understand that ITS A TEAM GAME!! Freeman is not the guy yet who can put everything on his back. He could turn into that. Hes only 24. However for now he needs some help. Through out his career, defense hasnt helped him, coaching hasnt helped. He finally has weapons and decent coaching. Maybe has some continuity in this system too would be good for him as well. I think hes only going to get better. This buc fan has patience and will enjoy watching #5 grow into the QB he will be. Right now hes still pretty damn good. Just needs to be consistent.

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#229 : December 07, 2012, 12:57:59 PM

Guys I think your wasting your time. They wont be happy with Freeman until he gets this team into the playoffs. Which is understandable. Its not like nobody else wants to get into the playoffs. We just understand that ITS A TEAM GAME!! Freeman is not the guy yet who can put everything on his back. He could turn into that. Hes only 24. However for now he needs some help. Through out his career, defense hasnt helped him, coaching hasnt helped. He finally has weapons and decent coaching. Maybe has some continuity in this system too would be good for him as well. I think hes only going to get better. This buc fan has patience and will enjoy watching #5 grow into the QB he will be. Right now hes still pretty damn good. Just needs to be consistent.

Agree we're wasting our time. However, it is my firm opinion that they won't be happy with him, it will be in spite of him. ;D

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#230 : December 07, 2012, 01:14:05 PM

Guys I think your wasting your time. They wont be happy with Freeman until he gets this team into the playoffs. Which is understandable. Its not like nobody else wants to get into the playoffs. We just understand that ITS A TEAM GAME!! Freeman is not the guy yet who can put everything on his back. He could turn into that. Hes only 24. However for now he needs some help. Through out his career, defense hasnt helped him, coaching hasnt helped. He finally has weapons and decent coaching. Maybe has some continuity in this system too would be good for him as well. I think hes only going to get better. This buc fan has patience and will enjoy watching #5 grow into the QB he will be. Right now hes still pretty damn good. Just needs to be consistent.

Agree we're wasting our time. However, it is my firm opinion that they won't be happy with him, it will be in spite of him. ;D

They are just hard on him. Its ok. I choose to look at it differently. 

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#231 : December 07, 2012, 02:23:52 PM

Its always the same dozen guys arguing against Freeman. When will anyone else learn these guys wont change their minds unless Freeman becomes a future HOF and one of the greatest to ever play the game. I mean Brady and Manning are both playing right now. They must be the baseline for any QB in the NFL today. Its not like those two are two of the greatest of all time or anything.



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BucNY

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#232 : December 07, 2012, 02:25:23 PM

That's how it is.

2010 was an easy schedule, a 3rd grader could have lead the Bucs to a 10-6 record.
2011 was all Freeman's fault with very little other influence.
2012 was again a 3rd grader could win this all this talent.

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Hate

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#233 : December 07, 2012, 02:34:16 PM

For me, i just wanna see the guy step it up against a legit opponent in a game that matters. Its as simple as that.

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BucBalla85

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#234 : December 07, 2012, 02:35:07 PM

Its always the same dozen guys arguing against Freeman. When will anyone else learn these guys wont change their minds unless Freeman becomes a future HOF and one of the greatest to ever play the game. I mean Brady and Manning are both playing right now. They must be the baseline for any QB in the NFL today. Its not like those two are two of the greatest of all time or anything.

Well its just the way they choose to judge their QB. Nothing wrong with that. I choose to be patient with this and see what he can do with a little better team surrounding him. I dont care who you got at QB. I dont think you can overcome the bad pass defense and lack of pass rush. Your not winning a playoff game with that defense. None the less a Super Bowl. But I mean if they want to be hard on him until we get there. Thats how they choose to be. Doesnt make them better fans or anything.

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#235 : December 07, 2012, 02:55:47 PM

I have zero hatred for Freeman. I hope for his success. I just don't ignore his shortcomings. I also have my doubts about whether we will make it to the playoffs, or much less a SB.

I don't give a f*ck about titles like TRUE franchise QB, or any regular season stats. I want this team to be back in the post season. I would like another SB title.
so if freeman can't get us to the post season, what available qb will ?

Johnny Football in 2 years?

Kidding, but the point is that hypothetically, the Bucs have 2 years to extend him.  He can't go anywhere if we don't want him to until the 2015 season.  Why rush?




Assuming he continues to progress..........the price would increase proportionately.
But if he he turns out to be a great QB does it really matter what the price is?

Sure doesn't. I mean, a franchise qb could win the SB with 52 unsigned free agents. We all know that.
? When has a top 10 QB's contract hurt a team like that?


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#236 : December 07, 2012, 03:17:27 PM

For me, i just wanna see the guy step it up against a legit opponent in a game that matters. Its as simple as that.

But he has!! Didn't you see that game in Charlotte a few weeks ago??

 ::)

+1, Hate.
: December 07, 2012, 03:24:08 PM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

BucBalla85

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#237 : December 07, 2012, 03:25:42 PM

For me, i just wanna see the guy step it up against a legit opponent in a game that matters. Its as simple as that.

But he has!! Didn't you see that game in Charlotte a few weeks ago??

 ::)

+1, Hate.

That was quite a come back. Great throws at the end of the game to win. Without Freeman we dont win that game. Sorry you guys arent impressed with that win.

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#238 : December 07, 2012, 03:32:19 PM

Wow. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I neither Hate, nor myself said that we were unimpressed with that win.

Did you read the description of the type of victory we want to see Freeman pull out of his ass?

Allow me to help.

" i just wanna see the guy step it up against a legit opponent in a game that matters"

"A comeback win against a 2 win team is not the same as a comeback win against a division leading team in a hostile environment."


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

BucBalla85

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#239 : December 07, 2012, 03:34:42 PM

I dont care who it was against. That was a tough situation. You guys wont be satisfied until we beat a good team. Im just saying you guys need to give credit where its due. That was a tough win.
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