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lyronmewis

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#555 : December 09, 2012, 11:29:24 PM

I think this fanbase would be happier with a QB that can complete 70% of his passes with a 6 YPA and 150 yards per game, then rely on the defense to win games.

TBayXXXVII

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#556 : December 09, 2012, 11:30:00 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.

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#557 : December 09, 2012, 11:31:09 PM

Put aside the tag and the time he has on his contract.  Answer the question, if you had to sign him right now or he'd be an unrestricted FA and you didn't have a tag to use on him, would you sign him to a long term contract with significant guaranteed money based on what you've seen so far?

The answer to your scenario is no.  But, that's not the situation at hand.

No it's not.  But it is an informative question to ask, because when you answer it you have to divorce yourself from you hopes of what someone might be someday down the road and be honest with what he is now.  And you will be more accurate in your assessment of him now than in your projection for the future.

And he is more likely to measure up to your current assessment in the future rather than change into what you hope or project.

Valid stance.

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#558 : December 09, 2012, 11:31:50 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.



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#559 : December 09, 2012, 11:34:11 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

Yeah, and Jim Harbaugh was on board with Alex Smith.



He had an alternative, we don't.

Yeah, because HE drafted the alternative.  He also had that luxury because he came into a situation where the defense was already set... had a great tight end... had a solid RB, and a good OLine where he only needed to address the QB position.  Schiano didn't have that same situation.  Harbaugh also had 6/7 years of data to go on with Smith where Schiano only had 2.5 with Freeman.

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#560 : December 09, 2012, 11:37:27 PM

Put aside the tag and the time he has on his contract.  Answer the question, if you had to sign him right now or he'd be an unrestricted FA and you didn't have a tag to use on him, would you sign him to a long term contract with significant guaranteed money based on what you've seen so far?

I rather take what i have than not. Considering our alternatives, FA wise i see no one better than him for significantly less money. Drafting one takes time to get production of, even if we somehow get a stud, which we can still do, and atleast should consider, as did Indy with Luck/Peyton.
I would not extend him at all cost, i do not see him as a top5 QB anytime soon, maybe never. But tying myself to a unknown FA or draft QB i would not do, just to MAYBE save a few bucks.

If we have a replacement better than him, or soon to be better, let him walk if we have not extended him yet or trade him, which is not much of losing bargain, since he still provides value to alot of teams. At worst we take a big cap hit for ONE year, should we have found our QB and still being stucked with his contract, but then we know why we have to waste a year rebuilding. But not even having a QB like Freeman on my team for next few years sounds scary to me.

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#561 : December 09, 2012, 11:38:15 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?

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#562 : December 09, 2012, 11:41:26 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?




Dude........



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#563 : December 09, 2012, 11:43:23 PM

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.

Considering Raheem could not even keep Ruud (or Caddy) i have my doubts he realls was a Morris's guy but not Dom', although, to save his job, Dom might want to let it look like this, should Freeman bust.

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#564 : December 09, 2012, 11:43:47 PM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?
Orton,Campbell, and Henne were available if you wanna count that as competition.


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#565 : December 10, 2012, 12:12:11 AM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?
Orton,Campbell, and Henne were available if you wanna count that as competition.

My whole point is, none is really better than the other.  This is the best that was out there.  Can you really tell me that ANY of these guys would have posed a threat?  No.  Outside of Peyton, there wasn't one other legitimate free agent out there that someone could say, "that guy could challenge Freeman".  Orlovsky is/was just as good as any of those guys.  So to make a claim, "why didn't they bring anyone in...", is ridiculous because there wasn't anyone else to bring in.

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#566 : December 10, 2012, 12:16:38 AM

Stephen Holder‏@HolderStephen      2 minutes ago

 I'll tell you what I tell everyone: Doesn't matter what you or I think. The Bucs are onboard w/Freeman. Period. I do happen to agree
 



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#567 : December 10, 2012, 12:18:30 AM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?
Orton,Campbell, and Henne were available if you wanna count that as competition.

I wouldn't call that "competition". 

But to address AJ's point, th fact they didn't bring anyone in in the offseason doesn't have to mean they are sold.  THey could have been evaluating.  Freeman was a big question mark coming into this season, we all had to be honest about that.  I laid more blame on 2011 on the coaching and circumstance rather than on Josh, but the questions were legit.  So they take a season to make a final determination with the new staff deciding if he has "it" and if he they can work with him and if he can be what they want.  Either scenario is possible.  I honestly don't think he answered all the questions.  I think we could actually see an Alex Smith scenario here next year with us taking a shot on a QB relatively early to challenge Josh, and provide insurance in case he struggles. 

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#568 : December 10, 2012, 12:21:55 AM

Stephen Holder‏@HolderStephen      2 minutes ago

 I'll tell you what I tell everyone: Doesn't matter what you or I think. The Bucs are onboard w/Freeman. Period. I do happen to agree
 


We shall see.  I can tell you this though... they're only going to be sold on him for 1 more year.  After that, Dominik will be fired and the new GM isn't going to be "on board w/Freeman" if he keeps playing like this.  Also, actions are louder than words.  If the Bucs are/were truly behind Freeman, he'll get re-signed this off-season.  I don't think that'll happen, which would lead me to believe that Holder is expressing an opinion, not a fact.
: December 10, 2012, 12:23:34 AM TBayXXXVII

lyronmewis

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#569 : December 10, 2012, 12:26:45 AM

The Bucs are onboard with Freeman, doesn't matter what any of us fans think.

We don't know that to be true.  Freeman was Morris' guy... not Dominik's and not Schiano's.  The fact that Schiano hasn't really ever given Freeman a glowing endorsement tells me that he's not convinced.  The fact that Dominik hasn't made mention about an extension more or less backs that up as well as it says that Dominik isn't sold on Freeman either.




And I would counter that they have not brought in one bit of competition at the QB position, showing they are all in on Free.

Yes they did... Orlovsky.  You can laugh if you want, but what other free agent QB out there this past off-season was markedly better than him?
Orton,Campbell, and Henne were available if you wanna count that as competition.

I wouldn't call that "competition". 

But to address AJ's point, th fact they didn't bring anyone in in the offseason doesn't have to mean they are sold.  THey could have been evaluating.  Freeman was a big question mark coming into this season, we all had to be honest about that.  I laid more blame on 2011 on the coaching and circumstance rather than on Josh, but the questions were legit.  So they take a season to make a final determination with the new staff deciding if he has "it" and if he they can work with him and if he can be what they want.  Either scenario is possible.  I honestly don't think he answered all the questions.  I think we could actually see an Alex Smith scenario here next year with us taking a shot on a QB relatively early to challenge Josh, and provide insurance in case he struggles.

Maybe if it were a strong QB class, but there aren't any players like that really. Maybe if a guy like Ryan Nassib falls to the mid 3rd, but he's probably going in the 2nd. Same with Zac Dysert.

It would be a better move to just draft CB, CB, BPA, and just draft a QB next year if Freeman stinks. I like Bridgewater better than anyone in this year's draft.
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