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TBayXXXVII

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#705 : December 11, 2012, 10:11:05 AM


That's why I have NEVER ONCE said to dump Freeman now.  I've always maintained from my initial post that we let Freeman ride out his contract.  I've even said we may need to franchise him for 1 more year.

Bradford has more / better upside because Freeman can do only 2 things, throw a deep ball and dump offs.  Outside of that he struggles... a lot.  In less time with just as poor coaching, Bradford has shown that he can throw the deep ball, the underneath passes, go through progressions, and hit the outlets.  All that while being behind a terrible offensive line.  Freeman's isn't the greatest and hasn't been, but they've been better than Bradford's.

But why franchise tag a just good QB? Forced to do so.

I don't think they'd need to franchise him, it's just an option that they might take.  I don't think there's a QB in this draft worth taking because I think there are bigger needs.  Freeman is serviceable, but in today's game, serviceable isn't good enough.  If they upgrade enough in the offseason, they'd probably win 7-9 games which would put them back too far to get a great prospect in the draft, so they may have to take a guy they'd want to sit on for a year.  In that case, they franchise Freeman.  Personally, I love GameTime's scenario.  I just don't think the Football God's would give us that gift.  Otherwise, I'm ok with Freeman running out his contract and moving on.  Another reason to franchise him would be to get a return on the investment.  Some teams are dumb enough to trade for bad QB's.  You franchise Freeman so that you could trade him.  You most likely won't get a pair of first round picks, but I'd be content with a pair of 2nd round picks.

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#706 : December 11, 2012, 10:28:15 AM


I don't think they'd need to franchise him, it's just an option that they might take.  I don't think there's a QB in this draft worth taking because I think there are bigger needs.  Freeman is serviceable, but in today's game, serviceable isn't good enough.  If they upgrade enough in the offseason, they'd probably win 7-9 games which would put them back too far to get a great prospect in the draft, so they may have to take a guy they'd want to sit on for a year.  In that case, they franchise Freeman.  Personally, I love GameTime's scenario.  I just don't think the Football God's would give us that gift.  Otherwise, I'm ok with Freeman running out his contract and moving on.  Another reason to franchise him would be to get a return on the investment.  Some teams are dumb enough to trade for bad QB's.  You franchise Freeman so that you could trade him.  You most likely won't get a pair of first round picks, but I'd be content with a pair of 2nd round picks.

no clue what 'we may need to franchise tag him' else should mean, but w/e. I'm bashing cutler aswell, right?

If we trade #5 to KC, add a 1st rounder to the ammo and trade for Bradford, it atleast would be a realistic alternative. I have my doubts about it really upgrading our QB, upgrading it enough to win SBs, but it most likley would not end in disatrous QB play the unknown migth provide.

Why should anyone trade TWO 1st rounders for a mediocre QB, who will be a FA next year, in case we have found our guy elsewhere, else letting him walk would not make much sense.

Why are you willing to see horrible QBs  'playing' here for next few years? Why throw away multiple years, chances at SBs, in a desperated search for an elite QB not named Freeman?
: December 11, 2012, 10:29:56 AM QaZ

chace1986

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#707 : December 11, 2012, 11:06:36 AM

Or a #1 and a #2. . A team like  KC would be all over the chance to get him.

Won't happen , but just sayin...

so would the a trade of freeman, to his hometown chiefs, and receive say jarvis jones and zach ertz be enticing?  assuming we pick up a alex smith/matt flynn/etc?  dangerous, but intriguing i believe.

I would do this in a heartbeat!  I haven't really dove into the draft that much, so I really don't know what's out there... but based on years past, if the Chiefs wanted to part with the #1 pick for Freeman, I assume we'd be able to trade down and get more picks... maybe even a #1 in 2014 too.  With the new rookie salaray structure, stockpiling picks is a great thing.  Adding to that, possibly getting Alex Smith would be gold.

As would I. I would take Alex Smith for sure. Put him in this offense with the OL healthy and he could do what we saw him do against the Saints in that divisional round game last year. We should not stop there in adding upgrades from 49ers. Lets go get Jim Tomsula as our DC. Add in Jarvis Jones, DRC in FA, a CB and S in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

#instantcontender


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

GameTime

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#708 : December 11, 2012, 11:16:47 AM

As would I. I would take Alex Smith for sure. Put him in this offense with the OL healthy and he could do what we saw him do against the Saints in that divisional round game last year. We should not stop there in adding upgrades from 49ers. Lets go get Jim Tomsula as our DC. Add in Jarvis Jones, DRC in FA, a CB and S in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

#instantcontender

not sure if you are joking, but we'd still have our first round pick around #12 probably...

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#709 : December 11, 2012, 11:37:45 AM

I've heard it all - the guy leading the move on from Freeman brigade thinks Donovan McNabb (2012/2013 version) is better than Freeman.

.


chace1986

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#710 : December 11, 2012, 11:43:22 AM

As would I. I would take Alex Smith for sure. Put him in this offense with the OL healthy and he could do what we saw him do against the Saints in that divisional round game last year. We should not stop there in adding upgrades from 49ers. Lets go get Jim Tomsula as our DC. Add in Jarvis Jones, DRC in FA, a CB and S in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

#instantcontender

not sure if you are joking, but we'd still have our first round pick around #12 probably...

Not joking. Take BPA at #12. Probably a DLmen.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

TBayXXXVII

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#711 : December 11, 2012, 11:52:48 AM

I've heard it all - the guy leading the move on from Freeman brigade thinks Donovan McNabb (2012/2013 version) is better than Freeman.

.

No.  He made an assinign comment about McNabb, so I sent one in return.  Back in '09, I thought we'd have been better off with McNabb than with Leftwich.  I said I'd rather him start and mentor Freeman.  He and Biggs have some kind of personal agenda against him, so it turned into a big debate.

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#712 : December 11, 2012, 11:59:33 AM

I've heard it all - the guy leading the move on from Freeman brigade thinks Donovan McNabb (2012/2013 version) is better than Freeman.

That's nothing.  You should have heard the same guy argue that McNabb was better than Rivers, despite of cold hard facts staring him right in the face:


right now McNabb is better than Rivers

(In 2008)
 
Rivers: 34 TD, 11 Int, 4,009 yards with a 105.5 rating.
McNabb: 23 TD, 11 Int, 3,916 yards with a 86.4 rating.

Try again. After all, "facts can't be disputed" a wise man once said.

And Rivers was yet again better than McNabb in 2009.

Rivers: 28 TD, 9 Int, 4,254 yards with a 104.4 rating
McNabb: 22 TD, 10 Int, 3,553 yards with a 92.9 rating

And yet again... McNabb is still better than Rivers.

How about now?  Is three years of completely outperforming McNabb enough evidence for you, or does your denial run that deep?

2010:

Rivers:  30 TD, 13 Int, 4,710 yards with a 101.8 rating
McNabb:  14 TD, 15 Int, 3,377 yards with a 77.1 rating



He really is comical.


QaZ

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#713 : December 11, 2012, 12:08:00 PM

I can not believe this, we rather want a guy that pretty much sucked for the most part of his 7 years in th NFL, see him as the saviour because of ONE game, against the #30 pass defense who was just trying to stop a 1200+ back, because the QB never showed anything before? A guy that gets benched for a guy OLDER than Freeman and has never started a game in the NFL?... just WOW

I really though we were discussing how to get an elite QB, how great QB play would be essential for winning SBs.

BucBalla85

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#714 : December 11, 2012, 12:11:27 PM

I know everybody keeps saying the stats dont matter and only W matters but the fact is hes got pretty good stats. Better than a lot of QBs in the league. Doesnt matter what we say about that, thats what hes got down on paper. Its not going to be the only thing they will look at in terms of getting a new contract but it will be a bargaining chip. I think his stats will only get better the more time in this offense. Remember we had a while at the beginning of the season where Freeman put up pretty bad stats. When the offense was still coming together. Make those games his average stats this year and thats an increase on the total numbers. Basically he should put up a better statistical season next year. As well as play smarter after the mistakes hes made this season. Hes gonna get better and hes never gonna be cheaper than now. I think its a smart idea to resign him now for cheaper and then if he stinks find somebody else. Its that simple.

TBayXXXVII

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#715 : December 11, 2012, 12:12:46 PM

I can not believe this, we rather want a guy that pretty much sucked for the most part of his 7 years in th NFL, see him as the saviour because of ONE game, against the #30 pass defense who was just trying to stop a 1200+ back, because the QB never showed anything before? A guy that gets benched for a guy OLDER than Freeman and has never started a game in the NFL?... just WOW

I really though we were discussing how to get an elite QB, how great QB play would be essential for winning SBs.

Let me ask you this.  Name all the QB's who have more wins, higher completion PCT, and passer rating than Alex Smith since last September?  Besides, the discussion is whether or not to give Freeman an extension, not how to get an elite QB.  In essence, if you're unsure about Freeman being an elite QB... then he isn't one.

RHBucsFan

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#716 : December 11, 2012, 12:29:33 PM

Freeman has never had to compete for his job EVER. This needs to change. Next year I expect us to push for the playoffs, and we'd better have more than Dan Orlovsky at backup in the event that Freeman goes down. Competition at all positions is a good thing

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#717 : December 11, 2012, 12:44:40 PM

Freeman is 2 TD passes away from holding the franchise record.  Given our franchise numbers are sad, Free has 76 TD right now with 54 int.  So the idea is to move on from a 24 year old who at the end of this year will own our Franchise TD record in 57 games played? 

BucBalla85

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#718 : December 11, 2012, 12:48:43 PM

I agree they need a legit back up. Dan the man sucks lol.

chace1986

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#719 : December 11, 2012, 12:50:20 PM

I know everybody keeps saying the stats dont matter and only W matters but the fact is hes got pretty good stats. Better than a lot of QBs in the league. Doesnt matter what we say about that, thats what hes got down on paper. Its not going to be the only thing they will look at in terms of getting a new contract but it will be a bargaining chip. I think his stats will only get better the more time in this offense. Remember we had a while at the beginning of the season where Freeman put up pretty bad stats. When the offense was still coming together. Make those games his average stats this year and thats an increase on the total numbers. Basically he should put up a better statistical season next year. As well as play smarter after the mistakes hes made this season. Hes gonna get better and hes never gonna be cheaper than now. I think its a smart idea to resign him now for cheaper and then if he stinks find somebody else. Its that simple.

Stats aren't completely irrelevant...but they do not tell the whole story. You have got to know this, BB85. You gotta look at Freeman's play from a situational play-by-play, game-by-game basis.

I don't see how you have enough confidence to say that "Hes gonna get better". What evidence, other than an ESPN/NFL.com stat screen gives you this confidence/faith to say that he will get better? Inconsistency is the worst enemy of projection.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.
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