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Feel Real Good

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#90 : December 06, 2012, 05:47:45 PM

I'm just illustrating the danger of using Passer Rating as a valid statistic.  I think right now, most people would put Freeman and Flacco within the same tier, whoever they have above the other.  A pretty good QB, probably just outside the top 10 somewhere between 12-15, shows flashes of greatness, but not the total package yet.
That's why I measured by passer rating and TD passes for a composite view. I would agree they're on the same tier, just with Freeman being a little higher.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#91 : December 06, 2012, 05:52:01 PM

The age thing is bullsh*t. The dude has been in the league since 2009. While Freeman and Russell Wilson might be the same age, Russell Wilson is on the cusp of doing something that Freeman hasn't yet accomplished...LEAD his team to the postseason. Also, while fighting for a playoff spot, Wilson went into Chicago and beat a division leader in December. Nothing Freeman has done in 3.5 years comes close to what a rookie his same age accomplished.

Saying "he is 24", is giving him a pass for not being able to do anything but build up useless stats.
Wilson is playing better than I ever thought he would, but he's won 4 games in which the opponent has scored 12 points or less. The Bucs have allowed an opponent to score fewer than 16 points once.

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.


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#92 : December 06, 2012, 05:52:26 PM


Playing well enough to beat quality teams and secure a playoff spot > being near the top of "several important statistics in passing"

several important statistics in passing = cherry picked stats that don't tell the whole story

whole story = In 3.5 years, Freeman has not been able to step up and deliver against quality opponents in the middle of a playoff run.

But we are talking about extending FREMANN, not the WHOLE team.
So why are you bringing up team accomplishments, while calling pointing at indiviual stats cherry picking?

Were those teams in 2010 and 2011 PO bound, just one quality QB away from the big thing? Why is M Stafford already out of it now, with still 4 weeks to go? What did Eli do between those two SBs? Why is Marino still THE quaterback , having the best coach in the history of the game at the sideline, but not winning one single ring?

I'm going backt to 2010, i do not get why i should give Freeman any more credit for 2010, had K2 not draw that flag in week 16. We were 10-6, and missed the PO, SEA got in with 7-9, did they have a better QB? Freeman did enough to have a shot at sneaking in the POs, like Rodgers did, or Eli twice. Just because of a few coincidence i do not see why i should see him as a guy keeping us out of the POs. Yes, he did not carry us to an undisputed  PO appearence yet , like Ryan did multiple times or Eli and Rodgers each once . But aint it funny that all those team went winless after?

I think he is good enough, this team has enough other holes to fill, before i would see him as THE weakness of THIS team. Sure, a better QB would help, but why risk getting a worse one, why waste draft picks and money searching for one, when you could use them somewhere else,  f/e improving our sub par defense.

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#93 : December 06, 2012, 05:53:54 PM

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#94 : December 06, 2012, 05:55:18 PM

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.

But we're not talking about playoffs, which I believe are out of reach unless the team wins out.  We're talking about how good of a QB is Josh Freeman.

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#95 : December 06, 2012, 06:03:01 PM

Flacco? When has Flacco ever put the team on his back and carried them to victory? I can think of at least 10 games in Freeman's short career where he made something out of nothing and forced us to win. Hell, in 2010 he was the comeback kid. Dude may be inconsistent, but he has proven to be clutch several times. I would never describe Flacco as clutch. He's had a great defense, great coaching, Ray Rice, and good receivers.

Now that Freeman has Martin, good receivers, and good coaching, all we need to do is improve the defense and we are a playoff team fighting for a shot in the Super Bowl every year. Some of you act like that six game stretch of being the best offense in football never happened. It did happen and that is what we can be consistently moving forward....but lets replace Freeman?! Really? Fix the freaking defense and we are winning the division every year.


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#96 : December 06, 2012, 06:04:38 PM

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.

But we're not talking about playoffs, which I believe are out of reach unless the team wins out.  We're talking about how good of a QB is Josh Freeman.

...but that is part of the evaluation of Freeman. Can he step up and make the throws and correct decisions when the teams season hangs in the balance? It's one thing to beat an average Rams team. It's a totally different thing to beat that Rams team when you know that a loss essentially ends all hopes for a postseason. They may say that they focus week to week, but their goal is to win a championship, and they can't do that if they don't qualify for postseason play.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#97 : December 06, 2012, 06:09:08 PM

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

So R Wilson is great, the star alingned that day for him. But how many chances did Freeman choke away under similar circumstances? Why did he not put them away earlier in the game, CHI just scored 17 points that game?

Don't get me wrong i'm high on Wilson, wasn't so high on Freeman when he came out. But i do not see how russell is already THE guy, while Freeman should not atleast still have a decent shot at it, when Freeman is not even 1 year older. When you say he already has 3.5 years in the NFL, he also did not spend 5 years in college to be as ready as in his early years.

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#98 : December 06, 2012, 06:09:42 PM

While some are ready to judge Freeman on what he has done from age 20-24 on a talentless team and horrible coaching and say it isn't good enough, I'm saying give him a 6 year deal and see what he does from age 25-30 with great coaching and the weapons we have already surrounded him with this year.


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#99 : December 06, 2012, 06:13:25 PM

Heck no
He might be our best option but I'm not sold on him. 


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#100 : December 06, 2012, 06:17:02 PM


Playing well enough to beat quality teams and secure a playoff spot > being near the top of "several important statistics in passing"

several important statistics in passing = cherry picked stats that don't tell the whole story

whole story = In 3.5 years, Freeman has not been able to step up and deliver against quality opponents in the middle of a playoff run.

But we are talking about extending FREMANN, not the WHOLE team.
So why are you bringing up team accomplishments, while calling pointing at indiviual stats cherry picking?

Were those teams in 2010 and 2011 PO bound, just one quality QB away from the big thing? Why is M Stafford already out of it now, with still 4 weeks to go? What did Eli do between those two SBs? Why is Marino still THE quaterback , having the best coach in the history of the game at the sideline, but not winning one single ring?

I'm going backt to 2010, i do not get why i should give Freeman any more credit for 2010, had K2 not draw that flag in week 16. We were 10-6, and missed the PO, SEA got in with 7-9, did they have a better QB? Freeman did enough to have a shot at sneaking in the POs, like Rodgers did, or Eli twice. Just because of a few coincidence i do not see why i should see him as a guy keeping us out of the POs. Yes, he did not carry us to an undisputed  PO appearence yet , like Ryan did multiple times or Eli and Rodgers each once . But aint it funny that all those team went winless after?

I think he is good enough, this team has enough other holes to fill, before i would see him as THE weakness of THIS team. Sure, a better QB would help, but why risk getting a worse one, why waste draft picks and money searching for one, when you could use them somewhere else,  f/e improving our sub par defense.

There were no team accomplishments.

While Freeman playing better in 2011 may have only resulted in 2-3 more wins...in 2010, Freeman had chances to win games against the Lions and the Falcons, and he failed to step it up. Say what you want to about the Winslow PI call, or Stovall's missed tackle, but the fact is that Freeman plays the most important position on the field and he did step up to the plate to help secure the win. Sure, they lost as a team, but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#101 : December 06, 2012, 06:19:38 PM

Extend him.

I see where there is some hesistation on the fans part to fully embrace Freeman. You'd have to be blind to see that he has accuracy issues, and problems reading coverages at times. I think those areas of his game will improve as he grows in the same offense. I've been a fan of his from the start, and want to see him put back to back good seasons together. But as a fan I see the intagibles he has. The size the strength, the 4th quarter comebacks, and he's still developing at 24.

When else have the Bucs had a QB who will throw for over 4,000 yards and 30 plus TD's in a season? Freeman is on pace to hit both of those goals. Extend Freeman this offseason and work on building a defense that can give him and the offense more opportunities to score. His numbers would be even better if the defense could stop the opposing offense.

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#102 : December 06, 2012, 06:19:56 PM

The age thing is bullsh*t. The dude has been in the league since 2009. While Freeman and Russell Wilson might be the same age, Russell Wilson is on the cusp of doing something that Freeman hasn't yet accomplished...LEAD his team to the postseason. Also, while fighting for a playoff spot, Wilson went into Chicago and beat a division leader in December. Nothing Freeman has done in 3.5 years comes close to what a rookie his same age accomplished.

Saying "he is 24", is giving him a pass for not being able to do anything but build up useless stats.
Wilson is playing better than I ever thought he would, but he's won 4 games in which the opponent has scored 12 points or less. The Bucs have allowed an opponent to score fewer than 16 points once.

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

At NO in 2010, pressure to win. He got it done. I know that doesn't count, for whatever reason you can come up with, right? Freeman has won a number of significant games. How about Green bBay his first start? I know, that doesn't count either.  And in 2010, 10 wins was enough to qualify for the playoffs but we lost a tie breaker. Remember Detroit? The official called offensive PI on a TD that the league later said was a wrong call. So actually Freeman led the team to what should have been an 11 win playoff season. Contrast that to the "win" Seattle got against Green Bay on Monday night, earlier this year.
: December 06, 2012, 06:24:59 PM Theoldbuc

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#103 : December 06, 2012, 06:20:13 PM

Really Chace? The Lions? We won that game and you know it. Free hit Winslow in the end zone and the robbed us. NFL even admitted it on the following Monday.


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#104 : December 06, 2012, 06:24:02 PM


Playing well enough to beat quality teams and secure a playoff spot > being near the top of "several important statistics in passing"

several important statistics in passing = cherry picked stats that don't tell the whole story

whole story = In 3.5 years, Freeman has not been able to step up and deliver against quality opponents in the middle of a playoff run.

But we are talking about extending FREMANN, not the WHOLE team.
So why are you bringing up team accomplishments, while calling pointing at indiviual stats cherry picking?

Were those teams in 2010 and 2011 PO bound, just one quality QB away from the big thing? Why is M Stafford already out of it now, with still 4 weeks to go? What did Eli do between those two SBs? Why is Marino still THE quaterback , having the best coach in the history of the game at the sideline, but not winning one single ring?

I'm going backt to 2010, i do not get why i should give Freeman any more credit for 2010, had K2 not draw that flag in week 16. We were 10-6, and missed the PO, SEA got in with 7-9, did they have a better QB? Freeman did enough to have a shot at sneaking in the POs, like Rodgers did, or Eli twice. Just because of a few coincidence i do not see why i should see him as a guy keeping us out of the POs. Yes, he did not carry us to an undisputed  PO appearence yet , like Ryan did multiple times or Eli and Rodgers each once . But aint it funny that all those team went winless after?

I think he is good enough, this team has enough other holes to fill, before i would see him as THE weakness of THIS team. Sure, a better QB would help, but why risk getting a worse one, why waste draft picks and money searching for one, when you could use them somewhere else,  f/e improving our sub par defense.

There were no team accomplishments.

While Freeman playing better in 2011 may have only resulted in 2-3 more wins...in 2010, Freeman had chances to win games against the Lions and the Falcons, and he failed to step it up. Say what you want to about the Winslow PI call, or Stovall's missed tackle, but the fact is that Freeman plays the most important position on the field and he did step up to the plate to help secure the win. Sure, they lost as a team, but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr.

So if the defense can't get a stop or if the special teams allow a return for 6, it's on the QB? Got it! And Marino wasn't as good as Kurt Warner because he never won the SB, right?
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Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Should the Bucs sign QB Josh Freeman to long-term extension now? « previous next »
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