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TheAman

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#195 : December 07, 2012, 01:06:12 AM

This is absurd.  If we offer him what any other team would offer him, he'll sign.  The Jets may not even need a QB in 2015.  I'm not going to talk to a wall anymore.  I can't think of a QB that was offered a fair contract, turned it down, franchised, still offered fair contracts, and then left the team in free agency.  If you can find a case of that happening, I will gladly accept the argument.  If you can't find a single case of that happening in the NFL, I will chalk it down as an extremely unlikely situation to happen.

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#196 : December 07, 2012, 01:15:08 AM

This is absurd.  If we offer him what any other team would offer him, he'll sign.  The Jets may not even need a QB in 2015.  I'm not going to talk to a wall anymore.  I can't think of a QB that was offered a fair contract, turned it down, franchised, still offered fair contracts, and then left the team in free agency.  If you can find a case of that happening, I will gladly accept the argument.  If you can't find a single case of that happening in the NFL, I will chalk it down as an extremely unlikely situation to happen.

Maybe it would help if you can find scenarios like this where the QB signs. Doubt you will find many because teams don't screw around and play small ball with QB's they want to keep. Brees is the only one I can recall without thinking too hard on it.

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#197 : December 07, 2012, 01:25:41 AM

Well, there's Joe Flacco now, Drew Brees as you said.  Before Michael Vick fell apart he got the contract after being franchised.  Eli Manning waited until the last year of his contract to sign an extension, same with Tom Brady.  Matt Ryan is heading into his contract year next year, there's a chance that will go into the season, and certainly will not be handled this season.  In fact, going through most non-superstar QB contract negotiations, they have waited until the final year of the contract to extend them.
: December 07, 2012, 01:32:12 AM TheAman

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#198 : December 07, 2012, 01:39:16 AM

Well, there's Joe Flacco now, Drew Brees as you said.  Before Michael Vick fell apart he got the contract after being franchised.  Eli Manning waited until the last year of his contract to sign an extension, same with Tom Brady.  Matt Ryan is heading into his contract year next year, there's a chance that will go into the season, and certainly will not be handled this season.  In fact, going through most non-superstar QB contract negotiations, they have waited until the final year of the contract to extend them.

Sure, but aside from Joe Flacco, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Matt Ryan, who else comes to mind? NO ONE I say!

Honestly though, I will concede the point. I sure hope it works out that way for us should we choose the same path.


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#199 : December 07, 2012, 01:42:03 AM

This is absurd.  If we offer him what any other team would offer him, he'll sign.  The Jets may not even need a QB in 2015.  I'm not going to talk to a wall anymore.  I can't think of a QB that was offered a fair contract, turned it down, franchised, still offered fair contracts, and then left the team in free agency.  If you can find a case of that happening, I will gladly accept the argument.  If you can't find a single case of that happening in the NFL, I will chalk it down as an extremely unlikely situation to happen.

Freeman would only leave Tampa in the dark if he, or his father, feel they would get a ring quicker elsewhere. I feel that to be the only real possibility.

With the way Mark has treated him, I seriously doubt he would do that though. For God's sake, the guy gave a contract to a wr that had "5" written all over it in his honor. Freeman would be a real **CENSORED**nozzle if he didn't appreciate that gift. Not too many GM's go all-out for their QB like that.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

TheAman

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#200 : December 07, 2012, 01:53:27 AM

Well, there's Joe Flacco now, Drew Brees as you said.  Before Michael Vick fell apart he got the contract after being franchised.  Eli Manning waited until the last year of his contract to sign an extension, same with Tom Brady.  Matt Ryan is heading into his contract year next year, there's a chance that will go into the season, and certainly will not be handled this season.  In fact, going through most non-superstar QB contract negotiations, they have waited until the final year of the contract to extend them.

Sure, but aside from Joe Flacco, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Matt Ryan, who else comes to mind? NO ONE I say!

Honestly though, I will concede the point. I sure hope it works out that way for us should we choose the same path.

Thank you, you're better than most for being willing to concede a point on a message board, haha.

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#201 : December 07, 2012, 02:08:00 AM

The age thing is bullsh*t. The dude has been in the league since 2009. While Freeman and Russell Wilson might be the same age, Russell Wilson is on the cusp of doing something that Freeman hasn't yet accomplished...LEAD his team to the postseason. Also, while fighting for a playoff spot, Wilson went into Chicago and beat a division leader in December. Nothing Freeman has done in 3.5 years comes close to what a rookie his same age accomplished.

Saying "he is 24", is giving him a pass for not being able to do anything but build up useless stats.
Wilson is playing better than I ever thought he would, but he's won 4 games in which the opponent has scored 12 points or less. The Bucs have allowed an opponent to score fewer than 16 points once.

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

With less of a supporting cast!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#202 : December 07, 2012, 02:20:55 AM

I think the danger of waiting another year is you take the chance of creatiing bad blood between the team, and #5 and his dad.

That would be the least of my concerns. Do you think Ozzie is concerned about what Flacco, his dad, or his agent thinks?

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#203 : December 07, 2012, 06:28:00 AM

This is absurd.  If we offer him what any other team would offer him, he'll sign.  The Jets may not even need a QB in 2015.  I'm not going to talk to a wall anymore.  I can't think of a QB that was offered a fair contract, turned it down, franchised, still offered fair contracts, and then left the team in free agency.  If you can find a case of that happening, I will gladly accept the argument.  If you can't find a single case of that happening in the NFL, I will chalk it down as an extremely unlikely situation to happen.

Doug Williams.


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#204 : December 07, 2012, 07:20:33 AM

The age thing is bullsh*t. The dude has been in the league since 2009. While Freeman and Russell Wilson might be the same age, Russell Wilson is on the cusp of doing something that Freeman hasn't yet accomplished...LEAD his team to the postseason. Also, while fighting for a playoff spot, Wilson went into Chicago and beat a division leader in December. Nothing Freeman has done in 3.5 years comes close to what a rookie his same age accomplished.

Saying "he is 24", is giving him a pass for not being able to do anything but build up useless stats.
Wilson is playing better than I ever thought he would, but he's won 4 games in which the opponent has scored 12 points or less. The Bucs have allowed an opponent to score fewer than 16 points once.

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

I'll give you that. Based on one game Wilson is clearly the superior QB.

You aren't giving me anything. I never said Russell Wilson was superior.

The St. Louis game coming up will be a titanic game for Freeman.

The next four games are titanic for Freeman and the whole team, if they even want to think about playing after 12/30/12.

But we're not talking about playoffs, which I believe are out of reach unless the team wins out.  We're talking about how good of a QB is Josh Freeman.

...but that is part of the evaluation of Freeman. Can he step up and make the throws and correct decisions when the teams season hangs in the balance? It's one thing to beat an average Rams team. It's a totally different thing to beat that Rams team when you know that a loss essentially ends all hopes for a postseason. They may say that they focus week to week, but their goal is to win a championship, and they can't do that if they don't qualify for postseason play.

So true, Freeman couldn't take the worst 4-12 team to the playoffs ( maybe ) while facing powder puffs like the Falcons and Saints twice a year. Plus powder puffs like the entire NFC East minus the doormats and 2 of the three on the road in the beginning of the year before they'd had a chance to grasp the new offence, and the Bronco's. Those are our only losses boys.

But the clearly better Seahawks have losses to the mighty Lions, Rams,Cardinals, and Dolphins, I'm seeing your point. I'd much rather have a dude who can put the team on his back for one game against a good team than one that doesn't lose to the lower tier teams. Makes sense to me.

Plenty of QBs around the NFL are leading their teams to potential playoff berths, while in a brand new offense. That's such bullsh*t. Freeman fails to step up in most big games. That's not saying that he is the sole reason for losing. People always point to all of his comebacks in 2010 as great accomplishments. While he does deserve some credit, he did it against crappy teams, and wouldn't have had to comeback late in games if he had played better football early on, instead of relying on late game "hope this works" heroics.

You say that you are "seeing" my point, but I have to disagree. Your pewter tinted glasses aren't allowing you to see much of anything. Most of the rest of your post is pure ridiculousness, so there is not point in typing a retort.
: December 07, 2012, 07:27:18 AM chace1986


chace1986

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#205 : December 07, 2012, 07:29:46 AM

Good discussion guys.

I would just add this......Its a QB's dream to make it to free agency, especially one with some skills.

That's pure speculation. There is nothing concrete to back this up, AJ.

You don't ponder breaking up with a chick, but only stay with her because you don't like the fact that she will be f*cking someone else in the future.
: December 07, 2012, 07:31:31 AM chace1986


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#206 : December 07, 2012, 08:47:51 AM

Pure speculation, no one knows if Freeman wants to stay here given the opportunity. There would be enough reasons to not do. Maybe he does not want to test the market having to prove himself ...AGAIN. Dude rushed through college, he is rich and young enough to maybe not sign his tag, if he does not want to waste HIS chances on a ring HERE. Even if we get 2 1st rounds for him, how does this give us a better QB then?
Just like speculating about his ability to become an elite QB. We just do not know.

Other QBs get signed up before all this franchise tagging, because teams show him to want him back wy before that.
The doubters of Freeman do not want to extend him early, because they do not know if he will be the guy in a few years. But this is not the reason  Eli or Brady did not get their extensions earlier, those guys already had rings, nor did their team look anything like TBs. It was about money, each side knew what they recieve from the other. Good QB play vs a good team, capabble of winning SB with, beside a fair shot at some money.

And if the doubters are right and Freeman will not be the guy, we have to already think about a replacement for him NOW. We do not have to find one now, but we have to make sure we have a good QB after 2013, or atleast minimize the risk to NOT have one by then.

I do not see anything good by not extending him this offseason, especially if we could get him cheaper now if he turns out to be great, while running the risk to not even have a mediocre guy like  Freeman in 2014. How much money is wasted if Freeman is not the guy? Its not like we have to pay him top5 money now.
Why throw away next years still testing out Freeman? The longer we wait the less likely we have a good QB after 2013, and isn't this what the doubters want, a good QB? The only benefit of waiting is to not be stucked with bad QB called Freeman.

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#207 : December 07, 2012, 09:00:18 AM


That's pure speculation. There is nothing concrete to back this up, AJ.

You don't ponder breaking up with a chick, but only stay with her because you don't like the fact that she will be f*cking someone else in the future.

I do not care about what Freeman might do elsewhere, alsong we have a guy that is capable of winning SB with.

You stay with your girl, if you fear to have nothing to f*ck with. If you end up alone(either by refusing to stay of just sucking) you have a problem. If you got someone else to have fun with, who cares about who shes pleasuring now?

I want a good QB in 2013 and after, i do not care what his name is. Waiting just minimizes the risk of HIM not being the guy that sucks on your team.But i would say its safe to say it increases the chances to NOT have a good QB after 2013.

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#208 : December 07, 2012, 09:52:10 AM

Really Chace? The Lions? We won that game and you know it. Free hit Winslow in the end zone and the robbed us. NFL even admitted it on the following Monday.

Yes, really. We lost that game. Bad calls happen. Sorry to be blunt, but only a blind homer thinks that: A. We "really" won that game. B. That singular call kept up out of the postseason

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121908/2010/REG15/lions@buccaneers?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gamepass&tab=recap

The Bucs lost that game. Period.

What you miss though is that Freeman made a legitimate play that was taken away. That happens all the time I know. However, in this case the League came out and said yes it should have been a td. Not a blind homer. Just the facts.

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#209 : December 07, 2012, 09:56:39 AM

I believe the Bucs will be trading for Tebow in the offseason, so no need for Freeman.

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