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#465 : December 09, 2012, 08:20:04 PM

Freeman deserves to get payed what he's earning now, the dude can't step up when it matters.

Someone remind us what his winning % is against teams better than .500.

/thread

Beating teams above .500 might be tough when you are on a team, that comes off a 10 game loosing streak, that has not won a single PO game in 10 years, and plays below .500 while.
With a great team i would expect him to split games against great teams, split against teams just as good as his, apparently he is destroying teams on similar talent level, or what was the excuse in 2010 again.

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#466 : December 09, 2012, 08:20:26 PM

Freeman's TD and INT stats this season are comparable to Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers and Matt Ryan and better that some other "franchise" QBs. It's just that we all see the uneven game performance (reflected in a low completion percentage)

But you can't just look at TD/INT numbers.  As you said, his completion percentage isn't just bad, it's worse than Kevin Kolb.  Out of 34 qualifying QBs, he's 31st.

and yet he has a team with the worst passing defense in the league within 7 or 8 points of winning numerous games.  believe me, I am on the fence about the guy and am very frustrated, but I think comparing him to Kolb or Jason Campbell is a bit odd, at least in terms of the money he will get. No doubt Dom has a tough job dealing with the extension, particularly if Schiano is on the fence

Yet if he had been even mediocre in the first half we would have won that game. When he is good he is great, when he is bad, he is awful. There does not seem to be any in between and that is his downfall IMO.

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#467 : December 09, 2012, 08:21:58 PM

It's not even the $ that worry me.. its the time.

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#468 : December 09, 2012, 08:22:21 PM

It would take one very committed and secure GM to let his own supposed "franchise" QB for $$.  Even if that might be the "right" decision, it is hard to imagine.  That is what makes it tough

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#469 : December 09, 2012, 08:22:45 PM

Dave, i don't have that answer but i'm pretty confident that we can find mediocre anywhere.
Skip - bringing in mediocre to replace mediocre isn't moving forward.  IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT (something like Jason Campbell's contract) Freeman should be re-signed. 

And he isn't the only one on the team that is mediocre.  And we should remain curious to see how he might function with the starting O line in place.  The current group of backups can't keep the pocket clean in front of Freeman - and most qbs stink when faced with that condition.  I AM NOT SAYING Freeman is the answer - just that there is still information needed to decide what Freeman's final evaluation should be.  In the interim - if the bucs can extend him for a fair price - that is smart.
On what planet should Freeman accept Jason Campbell money after he finishes the season with 3,900 yards (team record), 30 TD's (team record) and 10 INT's? Campbell can't dream about that kind of production.
Similar money for similar outcomes if he wants the extension FRG.  If he doesn't want it that is his choice.  As the talk has evolved I have noted something in the 5 million a year range is affordable and allows the bucs to keep shopping should they conclude Freeman isn't going to be the guy.
I thought you weren't with us anymore, Hugh.


LOL - no - I just don't see Freeman as the starter 2-3 years from now - so the 10 mill would be out of the question for me.
So what is the historical precedence for a 24-year-old QB with a career 76/54 not being a starting QB 2-3 years later barring significant injury/incarceration?
I don't think there has to be an historical preference.  Has there been such a rule enacted? 

He is currently set as 2012: $6.585 million, 2013: $8.43 million, 2014: Free Agent.  So 10 mill would be a nice raise for him if someone wants him that bad.  Do you see that player when you watch Freeman - 10 mill a year.  1/12 of the cap?  That is the question - if you do - pay him.  I don't see that.  I would pay for what I see, not what some undocumented historical preference rule indicated
Considering the best QB's in the NFL get $20M per season, $10M for Freeman seems more than fair.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#470 : December 09, 2012, 08:24:29 PM

Freeman's TD and INT stats this season are comparable to Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers and Matt Ryan and better that some other "franchise" QBs. It's just that we all see the uneven game performance (reflected in a low completion percentage)

But you can't just look at TD/INT numbers.  As you said, his completion percentage isn't just bad, it's worse than Kevin Kolb.  Out of 34 qualifying QBs, he's 31st.

and yet he has a team with the worst passing defense in the league within 7 or 8 points of winning numerous games.  believe me, I am on the fence about the guy and am very frustrated, but I think comparing him to Kolb or Jason Campbell is a bit odd, at least in terms of the money he will get. No doubt Dom has a tough job dealing with the extension, particularly if Schiano is on the fence

Yet if he had been even mediocre in the first half we would have won that game. When he is good he is great, when he is bad, he is awful. There does not seem to be any in between and that is his downfall IMO.

I agree with you 100%  except we do not know yet if it is his "downfall." That's the tough part because it all comes down to WHY is he currently that way. My guess is the coaches have some good intel on that, but I am not sure how any of us could do anything but guess.

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#471 : December 09, 2012, 08:26:16 PM

That implies you would pay 10 million a year to have Freeman qb your team.  Is that an accurate statement.  Because I don't see a qb worth that much, but I am curious as to how you evaluate him. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#472 : December 09, 2012, 08:32:10 PM

That implies you would pay 10 million a year to have Freeman qb your team.  Is that an accurate statement.  Because I don't see a qb worth that much, but I am curious as to how you evaluate him.



I think your paying him for what you think he can be.  Sure its a gamble, but think about him going somewhere else and lighting it up.


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#473 : December 09, 2012, 08:34:16 PM

In line with the thread topic, and not just a bash Josh thread, I see him returning to the Bucs on $5million ish a year, may 7-8, but it they will then draft a QB and have lots of clauses where they can cut him in a year or 2 without a big salary cap hit.

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#474 : December 09, 2012, 08:36:47 PM

Careful Spartan, or FRG will call you a Culverhouse as well - lol

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#475 : December 09, 2012, 08:36:59 PM

For several games the kid has played essentially half a game and we are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league (I think).  If the coaches think they can get him to play a full game then he is certainly not Kolb or Campbell when his half game kills those guys.  Again, he frustrates the heck out of me but my guess is some of the frustration is overblown given the magnitude of the loss we just endured.

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#476 : December 09, 2012, 08:38:05 PM

In line with the thread topic, and not just a bash Josh thread, I see him returning to the Bucs on $5million ish a year, may 7-8, but it they will then draft a QB and have lots of clauses where they can cut him in a year or 2 without a big salary cap hit.


What makes you think he would agree to that? 


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#477 : December 09, 2012, 08:39:18 PM

For several games the kid has played essentially half a game and we are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league (I think).  If the coaches think they can get him to play a full game then he is certainly not Kolb or Campbell when his half game kills those guys.  Again, he frustrates the heck out of me but my guess is some of the frustration is overblown given the magnitude of the loss we just endured.

He frustrates the living hell out of me. Every time I think he has turned the corner.......

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#478 : December 09, 2012, 08:39:29 PM

In line with the thread topic, and not just a bash Josh thread, I see him returning to the Bucs on $5million ish a year, may 7-8, but it they will then draft a QB and have lots of clauses where they can cut him in a year or 2 without a big salary cap hit.

So you are Dominik, the GM that drafted him and the GM that has now brought in Schiano. Another team offers Freeman $9 mil per.  Do you let him walk? If so, what is your back up plan for Schiano?

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#479 : December 09, 2012, 08:40:00 PM

In line with the thread topic, and not just a bash Josh thread, I see him returning to the Bucs on $5million ish a year, may 7-8, but it they will then draft a QB and have lots of clauses where they can cut him in a year or 2 without a big salary cap hit.


What makes you think he would agree to that?
His current contract is paying him 2012: $6.585 million, 2013: $8.43 million, 2014: Free Agent

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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