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Bayfisher

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#615 : December 10, 2012, 01:19:04 PM


What you simpletons don't seem to get is that Josh Freeman is only four years old. In twenty years he could suddenly turn into Eli Manning. Now is that what you want, the lost Manning brother playing for someone else?
So give up and start over with a draft pick or take the Gruden route?  This will also bring in the question of Schiano's ability to develop a qb. 

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#616 : December 10, 2012, 01:29:34 PM


Ah... where perception and reality don't always meet.
2012 - Chicago PPG - 3rd (5th in yards)
2011 - Chicago PPG -  14th (17th in yards)
2010 - Chicago PPG - 4th (9th in yards)
2009 - Chicago PPG -  21st  (17th in yards)
2008 - Denver PPG - 30th (29th in yards)
2007 - Denver PPG - 28th (19th in yards)
2006 - Denver PPG - 8th (14th in yards) [only played in the final 5 games]


Freemans defense? 27, 17, 30, 29. And since we are pointing out at 2010s weak shedule so much and especially weak QBs, 2010 looks like a fluke on defense.
As much as you want him to step up against legit opponents, i would like to see him just once with an above average defense, 14th in 2011 come to mind here, which would be Freemans best defense he ever had. Still, 3 times Culter had an even better defense than that. How we ever should pull this off when we rather spend our ressources on 'upgrading' our QB, i do not know.

That's got nothing to do with what he said and my response.  He said... and I quote "Cutlet has consistently had a Top 10 defense backing him up and making up for his mistakes."  That's not true.  He had a top 10 defense twice in 6 years and had a bottom 10 defense 3 times.  He's either making crap up to help his arguement or he's just going by perception.  In either event, he's flat out wrong.

Oh, and while you're on the "Let's bash Jay Cutler" bandwagon... can you refresh my memory on the Bears record last year in the last 6 weeks of the season... and what it was in the first 10?
: December 10, 2012, 01:31:34 PM TBayXXXVII

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#617 : December 10, 2012, 01:43:35 PM

When Cutler has a bad defense:

2007: 7-9
2008: 8-8
2009: 7-9
2011: 8-8

What a loser.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#618 : December 10, 2012, 01:54:15 PM


That's got nothing to do with what he said and my response.  He said... and I quote "Cutlet has consistently had a Top 10 defense backing him up and making up for his mistakes."  That's not true.  He had a top 10 defense twice in 6 years and had a bottom 10 defense 3 times.  He's either making crap up to help his arguement or he's just going by perception.  In either event, he's flat out wrong.

Oh, and while you're on the "Let's bash Jay Cutler" bandwagon... can you refresh my memory on the Bears record last year in the last 6 weeks of the season... and what it was in the first 10?

Lol, talk about 'perception'. I was on the 'trade for Cutler bandwagon' after 08. He looked like the guy i would break the bank on, draft pick wise, rather than drafting a unknown, unproven QB like Freeman, who i did not like coming out.
But see where we now. I like Cutler, but even i did not know he had 4 top10 defenses in 7 years, you said it yourself, in 2011, while he PLAYED, he was backed up by the #6 defense. Who did the bears beat this year? How did Cutler win @MIN, when peterson just had a few more yards than against us.
Fact is, just twice in 7 years he had a similar defense as Freman, else way better, still he is just 1-1 in the PO, 2010 being that one year, against a 7-9 team at home, same year Freeman was very unlucky to miss the POs and destroyed SEA on the road just a few weeks prior, while the bears benefited of a drop by Megatron and an almsot as weak shedule as TB.
He never had a worse defense, 5 times a better one and 4 times a top10 defense, thats more that 50% of his playtime, if you do not call this 'constitently', what else is?

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#619 : December 10, 2012, 02:03:31 PM

Cutler is moderately better than Freeman.  He's another case of hitching your wagon to a guy who's good but not great and because of it, not doing much.

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#620 : December 10, 2012, 02:08:58 PM

I still think they will resign him. I dont see the focus being on QB but on defense and Oline. They will let Freeman have a real shot at this. They want a defense who can help out the offense and I think they really want to have a dominant Oline. This team is still in its early development stages and (sorry to the Freeman haters) I think Freeman is a big part of that. They arent expecting to see the best of Freeman just yet.

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#621 : December 10, 2012, 02:19:39 PM

Cutler is moderately better than Freeman.  He's another case of hitching your wagon to a guy who's good but not great and because of it, not doing much.

This raises the question, WHO is? and more importantly, how getting him?
How about getting a defense to let 'this dream QB' hang with other elite QBs? Wouldn't it be alot easierright now  to improve our defense, instead of just looking for the eite QB? You wanna have a top5 QB, me too. But how about getting us a top15 defense, to atleast play up to the same level Freeman is already on now?
Then lets see how things work out, maybe Freeman is good enough to let himself get carried by them.

@ XXXVI If Cutler was the guy after 08, then how can Freeman not be. If anyone wanna tell me its the wepons that let Freeman look good. How do Marschall, Stockley, Scheffler work as weapons, combined with a top5 rushing attack. Even in 2008, when the had so many injuries at RB, they were still #12, #3 on yards per run. How do two sub 90QBR seasons make you better than Freeman ever can be, justify the trade but not an extension.

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#622 : December 10, 2012, 02:30:24 PM

Lol, talk about 'perception'. I was on the 'trade for Cutler bandwagon' after 08. He looked like the guy i would break the bank on, draft pick wise, rather than drafting a unknown, unproven QB like Freeman, who i did not like coming out.

I didn't say you WERE on the Cutler bandwagon... I said you ARE (meaning not), on the "Bash Cutler Bandwagon".

But see where we now. I like Cutler, but even i did not know he had 4 top10 defenses in 7 years, you said it yourself, in 2011, while he PLAYED, he was backed up by the #6 defense.

He had TWO, not 4, top 10 defenses in 6 years... I don't count his rookie season for or against him... he only played in 5 games.  Yes, like I said, the year he got hurt they were #6... but ended up #14 after Cutler got hurt.  Odd, I wonder what caused that.  I mean, afterall, Cutler didn't play defense.  Maybe Cutler being the QB helped the defense?

Who did the bears beat this year? How did Cutler win @MIN, when peterson just had a few more yards than against us.
Well, they beat Dallas... a team we lost to.  I have a hard time buying into division opponent stuff.  The Cowboys one year were 1-15 and beat the Redskins who won the Super Bowl that year...does that mean the Redskins weren't really that good?  No.  It's a division game where records never matter.  So, at the very least, the Bears beat a decent team that the Bucs couldn't.

Fact is, just twice in 7 years he had a similar defense as Freman, else way better, still he is just 1-1 in the PO, 2010 being that one year, against a 7-9 team at home, same year Freeman was very unlucky to miss the POs and destroyed SEA on the road just a few weeks prior, while the bears benefited of a drop by Megatron and an almsot as weak shedule as TB.

So basically, Aaron Rodgers isn't all that good either because they backed into the playoffs the year they won the Super Bowl... with a top 5 defense (2nd overall in points against)?  After all, those are the only playoff wins Rodgers has.

He never had a worse defense, 5 times a better one and 4 times a top10 defense, thats more that 50% of his playtime, if you do not call this 'constitently', what else is?

AGAIN, TWICE he had a top 10 defense, NOT 4 times.  Based on the 2011 season, a conclusion that can be drawn is that Cutler helped the defense be as good as they were.  Since it's fact that they were ranked 6th when he played and finished 14th at the end of the season, it's a legitimate analysis.

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#623 : December 10, 2012, 02:33:23 PM

@ XXXVI If Cutler was the guy after 08, then how can Freeman not be. If anyone wanna tell me its the wepons that let Freeman look good. How do Marschall, Stockley, Scheffler work as weapons, combined with a top5 rushing attack. Even in 2008, when the had so many injuries at RB, they were still #12, #3 on yards per run. How do two sub 90QBR seasons make you better than Freeman ever can be, justify the trade but not an extension.

It's because Jay Cutler was able to carry his team.  The reason why it's obvious is because they had the 28th and 30th ranked defenses those years.  Freeman obviously isn't.

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#624 : December 10, 2012, 02:43:08 PM

Cutler is moderately better than Freeman.  He's another case of hitching your wagon to a guy who's good but not great and because of it, not doing much.

Better than Freeman? Really? Based on what exactly?

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#625 : December 10, 2012, 02:45:53 PM

@ XXXVI If Cutler was the guy after 08, then how can Freeman not be. If anyone wanna tell me its the wepons that let Freeman look good. How do Marschall, Stockley, Scheffler work as weapons, combined with a top5 rushing attack. Even in 2008, when the had so many injuries at RB, they were still #12, #3 on yards per run. How do two sub 90QBR seasons make you better than Freeman ever can be, justify the trade but not an extension.

It's because Jay Cutler was able to carry his team.  The reason why it's obvious is because they had the 28th and 30th ranked defenses those years.  Freeman obviously isn't.
Remind me which years Cutler carried his team?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#626 : December 10, 2012, 03:00:52 PM

@ XXXVI If Cutler was the guy after 08, then how can Freeman not be. If anyone wanna tell me its the wepons that let Freeman look good. How do Marschall, Stockley, Scheffler work as weapons, combined with a top5 rushing attack. Even in 2008, when the had so many injuries at RB, they were still #12, #3 on yards per run. How do two sub 90QBR seasons make you better than Freeman ever can be, justify the trade but not an extension.

It's because Jay Cutler was able to carry his team.  The reason why it's obvious is because they had the 28th and 30th ranked defenses those years.  Freeman obviously isn't.

xd carry a similar defense to 7-9 and 8-8,inferior individual stats with help of similar WRs and a #5 and #12 rushing attack.
And i'm still not on the bash cutler bandwagon, i clearly stated i like Cutler.
Rodgers would not be a worse QB had he missed the POs in 2010, just perception would be. But this, i already discussed with chace, making him think i want to devalue Rodgers.
Bottom line is Cutler had way better defense behind him than Freeman...constintently better ones
But keep looking for excuse for Freemans success,  while defending his alternatives. If it makes us have a great QB after 2014 with an atleast average defense, i wont complain. Unlike other here i do not mind the name of our QB, aslong he is good and his team is too. But i defintly do not want us to waste resssources on a mediocre QB not called Freeman, then rather see how much a good defense could carry Freeman.

ps with Freeman as our  QB we did not get run over by CAR on MNF anymore. credit due? If cutler made the #14 defense look like a #6, i do not want to know how our defense would look like without Freeman.

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#627 : December 10, 2012, 03:02:29 PM

I dont think Freemans doubters will convince the team to drop him. I think he stays another year as the starter.

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#628 : December 10, 2012, 03:07:05 PM

@ XXXVI If Cutler was the guy after 08, then how can Freeman not be. If anyone wanna tell me its the wepons that let Freeman look good. How do Marschall, Stockley, Scheffler work as weapons, combined with a top5 rushing attack. Even in 2008, when the had so many injuries at RB, they were still #12, #3 on yards per run. How do two sub 90QBR seasons make you better than Freeman ever can be, justify the trade but not an extension.

It's because Jay Cutler was able to carry his team.  The reason why it's obvious is because they had the 28th and 30th ranked defenses those years.  Freeman obviously isn't.
Remind me which years Cutler carried his team?

Cutler was the reason the '07 and '08 Broncos were as good as they were.  While they were mediocre, if he didn't play the way he did, they'd have had 2-4 wins each year.  In that 2-year time frame, he was easily responsible for 12 wins... as a first and 2nd year starter.  Then he got traded and went to a team who's best receivers were Johnny Knox and Devin Hester.  He made that offense at least adequate.  He's a pretty good QB who is accurate.  Anyone who can complete 60% with that slop is pretty good.  The one thing he's suffering now from is the same problem that Stafford is having.  He has only 1 reliable weapon so he forces too many passes that way.  It's causing him to be less effective.  He needs to stop doing that, and it's on him and the coaches and management to fix that or he'll never maximize his potential.

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#629 : December 10, 2012, 03:11:00 PM

So if you give credit to Cutler for going 7-9 and 8-8 with bad defenses, doesn't Freeman deserve the same credit for going 10-6 and probably 8-8 this season with bad defenses?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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