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Boid Fink

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#855 : December 12, 2012, 09:40:56 PM

I see both sides. I don't think either view is stupid.
So hurrying up and signing a guy like Freeman who has gone through vast stretches of games looking like dog crap, only to "turn it on" when the play calls are drawn out on his palms, is silly. 

If this guy was the same guy, game in and game out, for vast periods of time, I could stomach it.  But because he has been in the league for four years and still looks like the worst in the league at times, I grow weary of supporting that.

Waiting is smart.  Resigning him now, is absurd.  I'm a Buc fan, and at times, I think Free has killed the Bucs single handedly with god awful passes and game play.






One point about signing him after this season, is the price would be much cheaper.  It may not mean much to you or I, but its important to Dom.
You think?

What if he tanks next year?  Or we get the same crappy play every other week?  Then Dom has to sit back and again, enjoy the stupidity of resigning a player that is absolutely not worth it.  I do not trust Dom at all.  Like Freeman, the guy is vastly inconsistent.

If he goes into next year without a deal and puts up huge numbers and demonstrates more familiarity and comfort, and improves upon his accuracy (not going to happen, but I can wish), then he will be worth the big dollars.

He is not worth big time money now, andhe will want it.  He is simplynot worth it now.  It is like some of you guys fail to watch the games sometimes, the way you fail to see what is solid talent, and what is replaceable.  Just because he is the best the BUcs have ever had (which is not saying a lot...and I am counting about guys the BUcs have had and produced for years and years) does not mean he is the best thing for this team.

If they get a chance, they need to sign a solid backup in the offseason...like I was begging for last year...and they need DBs and a good blitzing linebacker in FA, or in the draft.


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#856 : December 12, 2012, 09:43:05 PM

Here's Josh's numbers for the first 4 seasons compared to a few other QB's first 4 seasons:

           Total Games Played         Average Completion %           Total Yards           Total TD             Total INT                Average QB Rating (Not ESPN's QBR)
#1                 54                                              58.35                              12090                     76                         54                                 80.35
#2                 57                                              59.22                              12901                     81                         63                                 82.8
#3                 58                                              53.38                              11637                     66                         65                                 70.23
#4                 57                                              53.7                                 11385                     77                         64                                 70.55

On that list there are a total of 11 Superbowl appearances and 4 Superbowl wins.

#1 - Freeman, #2 - Jim Kelly, #3 - John Elway, #4 - Eli Manning

I'm not trying to say that Freeman will be as successful as any of these guys, but where would their franchises be if they gave up on their QB's like so many of the "fans" on this board do? People need to temper their expectations and realize that not every Superbowl winning QB enjoys immediate success like Big Ben or Brady.

You might wanna go back about 20 pages and hang out with posters who actually buy this BS.
I didn't realize that facts, logic, and reasoning were BS...

It's not BS. It doesn't support what he's been saying so its "bs" to him. I think you made a solid argument to resign him. I really see both sides as well. I just find it funny guys get pissed at others if they don't agree with them. It's always "anybody who sees it another way is(fill in the blank)". You see it all the time.

And you support it, so you don't think it's BS. Not really a big deal for me to use those two letters. It simply states that I disagree.

If you are referring to me as getting "pissed", then you are mistaken.

I didn't resort to name calling, as you seem to be suggesting above.
: December 12, 2012, 09:44:54 PM chace1986


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#857 : December 12, 2012, 09:45:23 PM

Wasn't talking about you with that comment. I just see it all the time on these boards. Glad you agree it's unnecessary.

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#858 : December 12, 2012, 09:50:00 PM

I see both sides. I don't think either view is stupid.
So hurrying up and signing a guy like Freeman who has gone through vast stretches of games looking like dog crap, only to "turn it on" when the play calls are drawn out on his palms, is silly. 

If this guy was the same guy, game in and game out, for vast periods of time, I could stomach it.  But because he has been in the league for four years and still looks like the worst in the league at times, I grow weary of supporting that.

Waiting is smart.  Resigning him now, is absurd.  I'm a Buc fan, and at times, I think Free has killed the Bucs single handedly with god awful passes and game play.






One point about signing him after this season, is the price would be much cheaper.  It may not mean much to you or I, but its important to Dom.
You think?

What if he tanks next year?  Or we get the same crappy play every other week?  Then Dom has to sit back and again, enjoy the stupidity of resigning a player that is absolutely not worth it.  I do not trust Dom at all.  Like Freeman, the guy is vastly inconsistent.

If he goes into next year without a deal and puts up huge numbers and demonstrates more familiarity and comfort, and improves upon his accuracy (not going to happen, but I can wish), then he will be worth the big dollars.

He is not worth big time money now, andhe will want it.  He is simplynot worth it now.  It is like some of you guys fail to watch the games sometimes, the way you fail to see what is solid talent, and what is replaceable.  Just because he is the best the BUcs have ever had (which is not saying a lot...and I am counting about guys the BUcs have had and produced for years and years) does not mean he is the best thing for this team.

If they get a chance, they need to sign a solid backup in the offseason...like I was begging for last year...and they need DBs and a good blitzing linebacker in FA, or in the draft.






If the Bucs give up on him, and he lands with a team like the Jets,  he will make Linsanity look like small stuff.    Freesanity, I can see it now.


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#859 : December 12, 2012, 09:53:36 PM

Ok back on topic. I think they will probably try to get something done this summer but I don't think it will be done until next offseason. Freeman knows he will get a pay day for being the franchise leader for TDs in a season but he can get BETTER stats next year and if they improve the defense MORE wins. I actually think there's a pretty high chance that happens. Think about it, the team will have been another year under Schiano and staff. The team will do its best to learn from its mistakes from this year. Offense will be more comfortable than it was at the beginning of the season. Remember how bad the offense looked to start the year? Some people were saying it was because the offense needed time, some people thought that was bogus and an excuse but hey that was then. They won't have that as much to start the year and Freeman will put up better numbers then. He's probably gonna have a better year guys. And it's just gonna be tackin up the dollars. I think he's getting paid. Whether some of us like it or not. I think this is the way it's looking. I think he gets paid next season though. Like the way some people actually rather have it.
: December 12, 2012, 10:02:45 PM BucBalla85

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#860 : December 12, 2012, 10:04:30 PM

There are VERY few QB's in the league that a consistently good week in and week out.  Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers are about it.  I don't expect Freeman to be at their level, but it seems like most people around here do.  Brees, Ryan, Romo, and Eli have all had multiple games they wish they could take back (and their bad games have been much worse than Freeman's bad games).  RG3, Luck, and Wilson all have great potential, but there's no one in the forseeable future coming out of college that has anywhere near the promise they do.  I don't understand who everyone wants to take his spot?  Flynn, Sanchez, Vick?

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#861 : December 12, 2012, 10:09:00 PM

There are VERY few QB's in the league that a consistently good week in and week out.  Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers are about it.  I don't expect Freeman to be at their level, but it seems like most people around here do.  Brees, Ryan, Romo, and Eli have all had multiple games they wish they could take back (and their bad games have been much worse than Freeman's bad games).  RG3, Luck, and Wilson all have great potential, but there's no one in the forseeable future coming out of college that has anywhere near the promise they do.  I don't understand who everyone wants to take his spot?  Flynn, Sanchez, Vick?
The guys who have gone through rough stretches do so for a game ,maybe a few QTRS,and then they are back to solid play. These are guys who have beaten good teams, under the spotlights.

Free has gone from game to gaem playing like crap, comes in and has a few good games, and then struggles again...just rampant wave riding.  Makes me nauseous watching him play, and after four years, I have had about enough.


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#862 : December 12, 2012, 10:10:29 PM

I see both sides. I don't think either view is stupid.
So hurrying up and signing a guy like Freeman who has gone through vast stretches of games looking like dog crap, only to "turn it on" when the play calls are drawn out on his palms, is silly. 

If this guy was the same guy, game in and game out, for vast periods of time, I could stomach it.  But because he has been in the league for four years and still looks like the worst in the league at times, I grow weary of supporting that.

Waiting is smart.  Resigning him now, is absurd.  I'm a Buc fan, and at times, I think Free has killed the Bucs single handedly with god awful passes and game play.






One point about signing him after this season, is the price would be much cheaper.  It may not mean much to you or I, but its important to Dom.
You think?

What if he tanks next year?  Or we get the same crappy play every other week?  Then Dom has to sit back and again, enjoy the stupidity of resigning a player that is absolutely not worth it.  I do not trust Dom at all.  Like Freeman, the guy is vastly inconsistent.

If he goes into next year without a deal and puts up huge numbers and demonstrates more familiarity and comfort, and improves upon his accuracy (not going to happen, but I can wish), then he will be worth the big dollars.

He is not worth big time money now, andhe will want it.  He is simplynot worth it now.  It is like some of you guys fail to watch the games sometimes, the way you fail to see what is solid talent, and what is replaceable.  Just because he is the best the BUcs have ever had (which is not saying a lot...and I am counting about guys the BUcs have had and produced for years and years) does not mean he is the best thing for this team.

If they get a chance, they need to sign a solid backup in the offseason...like I was begging for last year...and they need DBs and a good blitzing linebacker in FA, or in the draft.






If the Bucs give up on him, and he lands with a team like the Jets,  he will make Linsanity look like small stuff.    Freesanity, I can see it now.
Yeah, until he stinks it up and costs them games...and if you think Tampa fans are bad, wait til he faces the NY media circus.  He will shrivel like a penis in a cold swimming pool.


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#863 : December 12, 2012, 10:11:36 PM

Eli is different era of football???  Ridiculous!!! Not only is not a different era it's the same system.  This is not an excuse it's reality this offense he is running is completely different than anything he has ever run.  Route concepts takes two tango Wr and QB on the same page. Eli's first two years in this system 56 and 57% it wasn't till year three that he got to 60% completion rate. 

My intent was never to make a case that Josh is a Top 10 QB right now.  My point is he has shown enough that a case can be made for him to be extended this year.  It will be a lot cheaper to do the deal now then next year.  If you want proof we have a scenario playing out right now with Flacco.  I don't think anyone here would call Flacco elite, but he will get a hell of a pay day from the Ravens.  Unless they choose to start over at the QB position. They could have paid Flacco last year for a lot less. 

At the end of next year we will have a clear vision of Josh.  I don't see how his numbers go down next year with a second year in the same systemMartin, Jackson, Williams and Nicks, Joseph back on the line.  So that would put Josh around 30 TD passes and a dozen picks. Can a team or have you ever heard of team closing the door on a QB that threw back to back 30 TD seasons?  And I know the argument the Freeman bashers can't stand who would be just turning 26.  Does anyone think the Bucs will close the door?  I don't. 

So, if you don't close the door sign him this offseason it will be cheaper.

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#864 : December 12, 2012, 10:14:07 PM

I see both sides. I don't think either view is stupid.
So hurrying up and signing a guy like Freeman who has gone through vast stretches of games looking like dog crap, only to "turn it on" when the play calls are drawn out on his palms, is silly. 

If this guy was the same guy, game in and game out, for vast periods of time, I could stomach it.  But because he has been in the league for four years and still looks like the worst in the league at times, I grow weary of supporting that.

Waiting is smart.  Resigning him now, is absurd.  I'm a Buc fan, and at times, I think Free has killed the Bucs single handedly with god awful passes and game play.






One point about signing him after this season, is the price would be much cheaper.  It may not mean much to you or I, but its important to Dom.
You think?

What if he tanks next year?  Or we get the same crappy play every other week?  Then Dom has to sit back and again, enjoy the stupidity of resigning a player that is absolutely not worth it.  I do not trust Dom at all.  Like Freeman, the guy is vastly inconsistent.

If he goes into next year without a deal and puts up huge numbers and demonstrates more familiarity and comfort, and improves upon his accuracy (not going to happen, but I can wish), then he will be worth the big dollars.

He is not worth big time money now, andhe will want it.  He is simplynot worth it now.  It is like some of you guys fail to watch the games sometimes, the way you fail to see what is solid talent, and what is replaceable.  Just because he is the best the BUcs have ever had (which is not saying a lot...and I am counting about guys the BUcs have had and produced for years and years) does not mean he is the best thing for this team.

If they get a chance, they need to sign a solid backup in the offseason...like I was begging for last year...and they need DBs and a good blitzing linebacker in FA, or in the draft.






If the Bucs give up on him, and he lands with a team like the Jets,  he will make Linsanity look like small stuff.    Freesanity, I can see it now.
Yeah, until he stinks it up and costs them games...and if you think Tampa fans are bad, wait til he faces the NY media circus.  He will shrivel like a penis in a cold swimming pool.





Compared to Sanchez and Timmy Boy, Freeman will remind them more of Joe Namath.


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#865 : December 12, 2012, 10:15:39 PM

Eli is different era of football???  Ridiculous!!! Not only is not a different era it's the same system.  This is not an excuse it's reality this offense he is running is completely different than anything he has ever run.  Route concepts takes two tango Wr and QB on the same page. Eli's first two years in this system 56 and 57% it wasn't till year three that he got to 60% completion rate. 

My intent was never to make a case that Josh is a Top 10 QB right now.  My point is he has shown enough that a case can be made for him to be extended this year.  It will be a lot cheaper to do the deal now then next year.  If you want proof we have a scenario playing out right now with Flacco.  I don't think anyone here would call Flacco elite, but he will get a hell of a pay day from the Ravens.  Unless they choose to start over at the QB position. They could have paid Flacco last year for a lot less. 

At the end of next year we will have a clear vision of Josh.  I don't see how his numbers go down next year with a second year in the same systemMartin, Jackson, Williams and Nicks, Joseph back on the line.  So that would put Josh around 30 TD passes and a dozen picks. Can a team or have you ever heard of team closing the door on a QB that threw back to back 30 TD seasons?  And I know the argument the Freeman bashers can't stand who would be just turning 26.  Does anyone think the Bucs will close the door?  I don't. 

So, if you don't close the door sign him this offseason it will be cheaper.
Not necessarily true.


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#866 : December 12, 2012, 10:18:15 PM

I see both sides. I don't think either view is stupid.
So hurrying up and signing a guy like Freeman who has gone through vast stretches of games looking like dog crap, only to "turn it on" when the play calls are drawn out on his palms, is silly. 

If this guy was the same guy, game in and game out, for vast periods of time, I could stomach it.  But because he has been in the league for four years and still looks like the worst in the league at times, I grow weary of supporting that.

Waiting is smart.  Resigning him now, is absurd.  I'm a Buc fan, and at times, I think Free has killed the Bucs single handedly with god awful passes and game play.





One point about signing him after this season, is the price would be much cheaper.  It may not mean much to you or I, but its important to Dom.

Exactly , now is the time to do it if you are going to do it.


What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#867 : December 12, 2012, 10:19:21 PM

I agree, Freeman and hid Dad most likely don't accept a low ball offer.  So there is the problem.  High offer or let him go into his contract year?



There you go AGAIN. What's the problem? What's wrong with letting him play out his contract year?

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#868 : December 12, 2012, 10:20:13 PM

I agree, Freeman and hid Dad most likely don't accept a low ball offer.  So there is the problem.  High offer or let him go into his contract year?



There you go AGAIN. What's the problem? What's wrong with letting him play out his contract year?
Absolutely nothing.

It would be prudent to let it be.


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#869 : December 12, 2012, 10:21:14 PM

I agree, Freeman and hid Dad most likely don't accept a low ball offer.  So there is the problem.  High offer or let him go into his contract year?



There you go AGAIN. What's the problem? What's wrong with letting him play out his contract year?





Then he has options.   Then Dom is competing with the Jets, Cards, Cheifs and a few others.


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