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chace1986

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#1200 : December 17, 2012, 06:30:37 PM

Well what he's saying though isn't not true. We could still win with Freeman. You could just as well argue that had the defense played better this year we would be a playoff team. What's easier to replace? QB or defense? AZ, Miami, Cleveland have all had "bad luck" finding new qbs. Do we wanna go back and "test the waters" for a new QB again? Well maybe. But we're starting over then. A long process is likely what would follow. It's rare for new guys to come in and take over a team right away and take them where they want to go. It's a process. I'm guessing people are just done with Freeman completely?  If that's the case with you, who's this new guy gonna be? I say let Freeman have his shot with a revamped defense next year but have a back up plan if Freeman can't be the guy. Let the back up play in that situation.

At no point have i typed that we should send him packing. We should, however, find someone to compete. I've had enough of the coddling and "all about #5" nonsense. Dude should have to fight for his job just as others have and if he wins it, so be it. If not, then the team is better off for it.

+1. He should be fighting like hell for his job as starting QB next year.


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#1201 : December 17, 2012, 06:33:01 PM

I don't know everyone is expecting Freeman to lead us to the playoffs when our pass defense can't even stop Nick Foles from throwing over 350 yards against us. The guy isn't an elite QB and we aren't going to be able to get an elite QB. There just aren't many out there.

no one would be talking about foles if the Bucs offense could have scored before the 4th Qtr.

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#1202 : December 17, 2012, 06:33:02 PM

Schiano said today he would be worried about Freeman if he was a real screwup.  But he text the coaches at 10pm in the evening ...asking about formations and such.

Impossible. He's a loser with a **CENSORED**ty attitude.

Well... that's what all the fans who know nothing about who Freeman is as a person say and I'll take their word over Schiano's any day.
He seems like a good guy but he was loser with a **CENSORED**ty attitude yesterday. Can't deny that fact. His gestures after every bad throw yesterday was no different than K2 last year. K2's punk image just caused it to be magnified more.

Watch Aaron Rodgers. He yells at his receivers all the time, yet he gets praised for it for being able to confront his receivers for doing the wrong thing.

People complain that he doesn't show enough emotion on the field and doesn't care, but when he gets pissed, people complain that he is blaming the receivers.

What exactly do you guys want him to do? Punch himself in the face for his receivers running the wrong route? Will that make you guys finally stop **CENSORED**ing about everything Freeman does?
How about a "my bad" gesture because when he throws those crappy passes its not like the receivers are yelling at him. He should visibly take more responsibility for suckage and not make it the receiver's fault. Also if Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning yelled at a player for something wrong 9 times out of 10 that player probably did something wrong. Those guys earned that kind of pull with their play, freeman has not.

Boid Fink

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#1203 : December 17, 2012, 06:33:03 PM

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

He absolutely does not deserve an extension.  If he gets angry about it, oh well, deal with it.  There are better QB options available.  And by better, I mean at least they aren't standing pat like some yokels spittin' chaw feeling that 5 is "good enough".  The Bucs fanbase deserves better.


RogerGoodellSucks

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#1204 : December 17, 2012, 06:41:17 PM

Then if that is true, he 100% roots for the Bucs failure.
No, he thinks Tebow would make our team better.

Just proves how much everyone here is overreacting.

There's a thread saying how we should trade for Cousins and Mallett. Do you guys realize how stupid you sound? The overreactions are absurd. I knew they would be bad after he had an awful game, but jesus christ, what an epic meltdown by most of this board.

For me, it's much larger than just one game. I didn't think that he was the guy earlier this year, last week, or this very minute. He has never really been all that impressive in my eyes. There may be some overreaction, but you are overreacting to the overreactions. That can make it seem like you are excusing the incredibly poor play that we have seen from Freeman since 2010 ended. Sure, we didn't lose this game just because of Freeman, but he certainly isn't helping us win games. He looked like Cutler out there. Blaming everyone else for poorly thrown balls, throwing picks right and left...the dude just isn't going to lead us to the playoffs or a title, IMO.

I don't see anything wrong with a thread exploring trading for Mallett or Cousins. Sure, they are unproven, but so is every rookie QB that comes into the league. At least those two would have had a year to sit, watch, and learn some aspects of the NFL game. Of course that thread looks absurd to you, because you are sure that Freeman is the guy..but most here are unsure.

First of all, I am not sure Freeman is the guy.

I have already said in this thread that we shouldn't extend him yet, but let him play out until next year.

You said he looked like Cutler out there. Okay, it was 1 **CENSORED**ing game. Pretty much all Quarterbacks have awful games other than Peyton, Brady and Rodgers. Get that through your head. It's going to happen.

And uhh, Freeman has turned the ball via a fumble only twice all year. That is not a lot at all.

The Cowboys game, he was awful, I'll give you that one.

The other 3 games were far from awful though, other than possibly Denver (who has an excellent defense). He played poor in the 1st half of the WAS and PHI games, but do you not remember what those games came down to? All our defense needed was 1 stop against both those teams, but they failed to do it and we lost the game. Freeman and the offense put us in position to win those games, but the defense blew it. How could you possibly blame Freeman for letting rookie QB's drive on our defense and getting game winning drives? You're being absurd.

As far as his fumble(s), your quote was, " I don't think he fumbled once before the game either."

I didn't put all of the blame on Freeman in any of those games. You aren't correctly reading what I wrote. He does deserve some criticism for those losses for playing like crap for half of the game.

Freeman helped to dig us in a hole with his inefficient play. Period. You can't push a woman in the lake, then jump in and fish her out, then scream, "look, I saved her!".

I'm being absurd, but you refuse to see what is right in front of you. You seem to be one of the last ones on here sticking by Freeman, which is admirable, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

He did put us in a hole in those games, but he came back strong, fought back and got the lead back in both of those games. Fact is, we win both of those games if the defense makes a stop. Freeman and the offense put the team in a chance to win and each game came down to 1 drive. The defense blew both of them. Freeman wasn't given a chance to lead the team back after that (which he has done a lot throughout his career) because there was no time left.

And, fact is, if we have a decent pass defense, we're in the playoffs this year.

You guys don't seem to understand how hard it is to replace a QB. If we get rid of Freeman, we're set back a good 2-3 years and not even guaranteed a better QB than Freeman. There are 3 elite QB's in the NFL right now. It's not like they just come off trees. If you don't have one of those QB's though, you're gonna have to understand that your QB is going to have some bad games. Freeman is not an elite QB and I don't think he ever will be, but we can win with this guy and there's no reason to get rid of him. Freeman and the offense is doing just fine.

The fact is, if Freeman plays 4 qtrs. of complete ball, we are in the playoffs.

You don't seem to understand the damage of hanging onto a teasing Aaron Brooks type QB and how constantly waiting on him to put it together can set you back a lot more than 2-3 years. We may already be "set back". No one is asking for elite, we are asking for consistency. There is no evidence that we can win with this guy. We can find a QB who is better than Freeman. I would hate for this team to settle for mediocre QB play for the next half decade.

So, what you're saying is you are expecting Freeman to play good for the entire game of every single game of the season besides 2 or 3 of them and then we'll make the playoffs.

 And because he had 2 or 3 bad games and 2 bad halfs, we should move on from him although he's 24 and in his first year of a new system.
Him being 24 and in a new system are cop outs. There are 3 rookies in brand new systems and roughly the same age, and they have led their teams to the prescipus of the playoffs.

I already explained this in another thread.

Football is a team game. QB's aren't the sole reason a team makes the playoff unless they are elite. It's amazing how many people on this board don't understand this basic concept.

Luck is having a bad season. The only reason why they are making the playoffs is because their schedule is garbage, second easiest in the NFL behind the Falcons. They will get embarrassed in the playoffs.

Wilson has an awesome defense and a great running game to support him. All he has to do is not **CENSORED** up and they're in the playoffs.

RG3 has been the most impressive of the bunch and it is pretty impressive that he's leading them to the playoffs, but he is probably the best rookie QB of all time. Plus, Kirk Cousins has won them the past 2 games so it's obviously not all RG3. Shanahan and the coaching staff have done an excellent job there.

I never said they were the sole reason. I said that they have "led". You are understating what Luck and Wilson are doing, which is no surprise given your stance on Freeman. Luck is having a bad season. Lol. That's a good one. Watch games, not stat sheets. He isn't amazing by any means, but "bad" is not accurate.

I have watched him. I haven't been impressed. He makes some awesome throws, but also makes a lot of throws that have you thinking "why the **CENSORED** did he throw that". I think he will be great and better than Freeman, but he was the #1 pick in the draft and the most hyped QB since Peyton Manning for a reason.

Wilson and Luck would definitely not be leading the Bucs to the playoffs this year, I'll tell you that.  RG3 is the only who would have a shot and I doubt he'd be able to do it either.


chace1986

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#1205 : December 17, 2012, 06:41:53 PM

I mean because fans are always expecting the QB to lead the team to the promise land. If he's not then hes no good to the fans. Well, there's not many proven guys out there. At least let this team finish building itself. Defense is no where near ready for competing. Offense statistically has been one of the better ones in the league. There's a lot of fans who would trade their offense for ours. I mean there's positives to keeping Freeman and letting this thing ride out. But the last few games have really sucked for him. He needs to do something to get himself out. He did himself zero favors yesterday and took a major step back. Lets see if he can do it or not. If he has a repeat performance the next two games, you gotta think about getting somebody else at that point. I mean I don't know if the team would take Freeman seriously anymore. I couldn't say. But I'll just say I think his time wearing thin here but I think it could be longer if he gets a solid defense here and he plays like he is capable of playing. So it starts next game at home. Just get it done.

The defense sucks, no doubt...but they could add all the defensive talent on the market, and it wouldn't solve Freeman's chronic accuracy problems.

After the Dallas game, I thought that at least Freeman probably won't play worse than that..and Sunday he proved me wrong. It really concerns me how god awful he looks for really long stretches. The Dallas game, skins game, eagles game, broncos game, 2nd saints game, were all games where he had 2 qtrs or more of terrible play. That is the Josh Freeman we have seen the most of since 09', and that is concerning because you don't really know what the guy is due to his utter lack of consistency.


RogerGoodellSucks

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#1206 : December 17, 2012, 06:45:21 PM

Schiano said today he would be worried about Freeman if he was a real screwup.  But he text the coaches at 10pm in the evening ...asking about formations and such.

Impossible. He's a loser with a **CENSORED**ty attitude.

Well... that's what all the fans who know nothing about who Freeman is as a person say and I'll take their word over Schiano's any day.
He seems like a good guy but he was loser with a **CENSORED**ty attitude yesterday. Can't deny that fact. His gestures after every bad throw yesterday was no different than K2 last year. K2's punk image just caused it to be magnified more.

Watch Aaron Rodgers. He yells at his receivers all the time, yet he gets praised for it for being able to confront his receivers for doing the wrong thing.

People complain that he doesn't show enough emotion on the field and doesn't care, but when he gets pissed, people complain that he is blaming the receivers.

What exactly do you guys want him to do? Punch himself in the face for his receivers running the wrong route? Will that make you guys finally stop **CENSORED**ing about everything Freeman does?
How about a "my bad" gesture because when he throws those crappy passes its not like the receivers are yelling at him. He should visibly take more responsibility for suckage and not make it the receiver's fault. Also if Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning yelled at a player for something wrong 9 times out of 10 that player probably did something wrong. Those guys earned that kind of pull with their play, freeman has not.

Well, when he does that, everyone complains that he doesn't have enough passion for the game because he isn't showing emotion.


RogerGoodellSucks

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#1207 : December 17, 2012, 06:54:42 PM

I don't know everyone is expecting Freeman to lead us to the playoffs when our pass defense can't even stop Nick Foles from throwing over 350 yards against us. The guy isn't an elite QB and we aren't going to be able to get an elite QB. There just aren't many out there.

no one would be talking about foles if the Bucs offense could have scored before the 4th Qtr.

No one wold be talking about that game if the defense didn't let Foles drive down the field 70 yards and score a TD on that last drive.


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#1208 : December 17, 2012, 06:58:13 PM

No one wold be talking about that game if the defense didn't let Foles drive down the field 70 yards and score a TD on that last drive.

i agree.  but the strength of our team is the offense.  they need to lead the way.  to expect a bunch of undrafted guys making their first couple starts to be the cornerstone is crazy to me.  it would be great if freeman didnt have to produce and we could still win.  it would be great if we could lean on our defense.  but cant just about any QB do that?  freeman does the absolute minimum to win a game and you guys love it.  we can get absolute minimum from many others.

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#1209 : December 17, 2012, 07:28:22 PM

No one wold be talking about that game if the defense didn't let Foles drive down the field 70 yards and score a TD on that last drive.

i agree.  but the strength of our team is the offense.  they need to lead the way.  to expect a bunch of undrafted guys making their first couple starts to be the cornerstone is crazy to me.  it would be great if freeman didnt have to produce and we could still win.  it would be great if we could lean on our defense.  but cant just about any QB do that?  freeman does the absolute minimum to win a game and you guys love it.  we can get absolute minimum from many others.
I'm not expecting the secondary to lead the way, but just because our secondary sucks, doesn't mean we should blame Freeman because he isn't doing enough to make up for the **CENSORED**ty play of the defense.

And how exactly is Freeman doing the absolute minimum for us? Even with that awful game yesterday, all his numbers rank in the top half of the league and our offense is top 10 in points per game.


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#1210 : December 17, 2012, 07:43:54 PM

The top half of the league is not something to crow about.  There's about 20 QBs you'd be comfortable starting an NFL game for your team, including guys like Rivers who may be on his way out.  If he's 15-16th of those, that means he's simply an average starting QB, and just above guys you'd be shipping out in a heartbeat.

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#1211 : December 17, 2012, 07:51:30 PM

RGS...you resort to quoting stats as if they are the be-all and end-all of QB evaluation. Numbers can be deceptive when you have great athletes around you to hide deficiencies but now Joshy is being exposed as an inconsistent/mostly inaccurate spoiled brat. When Schiano came in talking about TBA, you would've thought their leader on offence would exemplify that "A".....when his passes are far off the mark, he behaves like another type of "A"......I'm tired of his act now - 4 years is more than enough time to practice and study yourself into being a consistent bright spot for the team....and he is not...so just like when a corporation under-performs and misses projected profits, off with the head!

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#1212 : December 17, 2012, 09:07:20 PM


When I looked yesterday, he was top 10 in Passer rating, YPA and least INT's thrown, but I guess they updated the stats after yesterday. Either way, he is still in the top half of the league. The point is, he isn't the main problem here.

16th in passer rating, below the likes of Philip Rivers and Cam Newton.  12th in YPA, which isn't bad, but also his best stat.  And not anywhere close to top 10 of interceptions thrown.  And he may not be the main problem here.  But he is a problem.
Dude, he's not going to be top 10 in every stat.

Eli Manning has a worse QB ranking than Freeman.

Brees leads the league in INT's.

Rivers is in the bottom 10 for YPA.

The only QB's who are in the top 10 for all those stats are Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Ryan. And where the hell do you think we're going to find a QB like that?
The last two games really screwed him. Prior to that he was top 5 in YPA and top 10 in QBR.

The real problem with the last two game is he didn't just look "bad".  He looked like a clueless rookie playing against the '99 Buc defense.

He's going nowhere, but that is very concerning for non-excuse-making Buccaneer fans.


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#1213 : December 17, 2012, 09:14:06 PM

I'm not expecting the secondary to lead the way, but just because our secondary sucks, doesn't mean we should blame Freeman because he isn't doing enough to make up for the **CENSORED**ty play of the defense.

And how exactly is Freeman doing the absolute minimum for us? Even with that awful game yesterday, all his numbers rank in the top half of the league and our offense is top 10 in points per game.

freeman led us to 2 scores against a porous eagles D.  thats the absolute minimum.  i wont even get into getting shutout by the atrocious saints D.  they are 27th in scoring - after shutting us out!  our offense has been held scoreless in 7 of the last 8 qtrs.

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The Anti-Java

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#1214 : December 17, 2012, 09:38:10 PM

After watching Tebow tonight,  there still may be hope  for Freeman.


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