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#45 : December 07, 2012, 02:12:36 PM

It's not Asomugha's fault the Eagles decided to pay him millions of dollars to do things he's not good at. That's on the Eagles. Teams have coaches and scouts who are paid to evaluate what players are good at, what they aren't, and make plans accordingly. Secondary players are tremendously affected by scheme. Was it Brian Kelly's fault Detroit paid him a bunch of money to play like he did in Tampa when they couldn't replicate his situation? No. That was the Lions' fault.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#46 : December 07, 2012, 02:19:16 PM

Two Words:

Nnamdi Asomugha.

Listening to Philly radio, there's a chance he gets cut with the old regime.

Press coverage is supposedly his forte, and is what we insist on playing.

Two words:

You serious?


That guy was overrated from the get off and has been a huge bust in Philly. It's not just that he hasn't been great and hasn't lived up to his giant contract...it's that he has flat out sucked and not lived up to a veteran minimum contract. Why on Earth would we want to sign a 32 year old CB that has been awful for the last two years?

playing corner isn't just like "hey, that dude is awesome...lets get him, plug him into our system and he'll excel."  To some degree, every corner is a "system corner".  Nnamdi is no different...and the system that he's playing in currently is NOT the system he is made to play in.  What they are asking him to do in philly is NOT what he is comfortable doing, or what he enjoys doing.  He is a press corner who bumps a guy at the line, disrupts his route and keeps up with him while running so that when the ball is thrown towards him, he can make a play on it.  Thing is, because he is so good at the press coverage, and timing routes are so important in this league, the ball is rarely ever thrown that way.

The good news about bringing Nnamdi in here is that...thats our system.  That is what we try to do!  He'd fit in!  He's perfect!  The bad news is....Nnamdi has long legs.  The longer the play takes to develop, the more at a disadvantage he is, because he doesn't have the hip fluidity make sharp turns (he relies on his speed to catch back up).  We don't apply enough pressure to the QB to make sure that the plays are short enough.

So yes, bring him in...definitely.  Theres absolutely no reason not to.  You say he's old...but there's almost no wear on those tires.  Look at Terrance Newman...taken in the same year.  He has twice as many tackles as Nnamdi.  Or Brandon Carr...who only has 100 less and 5 years less playing time.  Or Ronde who has 5 years more but almost 1000 more tackles.  Nnamdi isn't hitting people, because the ball isn't getting thrown at him.  Just remember...until we get a pass rush that can make sure he isn't chasing after a receiver all day long...results aren't going to be spectacular (same for any corner).

I really don't see why athletes get so much of pass. A worker who gets paid $40K a year will have to adjust to what he or she is not accustomed if management requires it. The same should be expected of a veteran who gets paid millions for 16+ plus weeks of work.
We're not talking monotonous tasks that people like us deal with, such as switching from using Microsoft Explorer to Firefox. NFL players are specialized athletes and the really good ones are generally really good because they do one thing really well and telling them to do something that they don't do really well is just stupid. You don't tell Carl Lewis to start running marathons because he's a good sprinter, you don't tell Michael Jordan to play center because he's a good shooting guard and you don't tell Nnamdi Asomugha to play zone or off coverage. That's not what he does. It's not like Asomugha is refusing to do different things. He's just not as good at them.

Your second sentence contradicts the rest of your statement. Yes they are specialized athletes. Its not like the Eagles are asking Nnamdi to play fullback. These are professional athletes and supposedly the best in the country. If a CB can't move to another team and adapt to their scheme, he does not deserve to be paid millions. Unlike fans, they study (well suppose to) the game in detail. He should be able to adjust. The average Harry, **CENSORED**, and Tom does it all the time and gets paid a fraction what he does. Like I said earlier, if they moved him to FB I would give him a pass. Since he is still playing CB, I'm not. Adapting to a different scheme does not excuse him being blown in coverage and missing multiple tackles the last two seasons in Philly.


LMAO, I love when ignorant people blame players for taking huge contracts from teams that misuse their skill set.

So if Barber were signed to a man off system for a different team and got eaten alive(because he would) he shouldnt be considered great. He shouldnt be in the HOF conversation. Hes just some system guy who doesnt deserve to be paid millions. he should get the vet minimum. Its the exact same criteria. lol.



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#47 : December 07, 2012, 02:23:38 PM

Yea I think you judge a player for the performance he has with his team. Not the hypotheticals. Credit the team for putting the player in position to be succesful and the player doing what he has to do. You gotta have both to do the best you possibly can.

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#48 : December 07, 2012, 02:27:38 PM

Hey, lets throw a guy like Sproles on a power run team and make him run between the tackles all season. Lets take Welker and male him run Go routes and wait for him to outrun coverage.

Then we can blame them for taking a high contract and not producing....



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#49 : December 07, 2012, 02:35:12 PM

Two Words:

Nnamdi Asomugha.

Listening to Philly radio, there's a chance he gets cut with the old regime.

Press coverage is supposedly his forte, and is what we insist on playing.

Two words:

You serious?


That guy was overrated from the get off and has been a huge bust in Philly. It's not just that he hasn't been great and hasn't lived up to his giant contract...it's that he has flat out sucked and not lived up to a veteran minimum contract. Why on Earth would we want to sign a 32 year old CB that has been awful for the last two years?

playing corner isn't just like "hey, that dude is awesome...lets get him, plug him into our system and he'll excel."  To some degree, every corner is a "system corner".  Nnamdi is no different...and the system that he's playing in currently is NOT the system he is made to play in.  What they are asking him to do in philly is NOT what he is comfortable doing, or what he enjoys doing.  He is a press corner who bumps a guy at the line, disrupts his route and keeps up with him while running so that when the ball is thrown towards him, he can make a play on it.  Thing is, because he is so good at the press coverage, and timing routes are so important in this league, the ball is rarely ever thrown that way.

The good news about bringing Nnamdi in here is that...thats our system.  That is what we try to do!  He'd fit in!  He's perfect!  The bad news is....Nnamdi has long legs.  The longer the play takes to develop, the more at a disadvantage he is, because he doesn't have the hip fluidity make sharp turns (he relies on his speed to catch back up).  We don't apply enough pressure to the QB to make sure that the plays are short enough.

So yes, bring him in...definitely.  Theres absolutely no reason not to.  You say he's old...but there's almost no wear on those tires.  Look at Terrance Newman...taken in the same year.  He has twice as many tackles as Nnamdi.  Or Brandon Carr...who only has 100 less and 5 years less playing time.  Or Ronde who has 5 years more but almost 1000 more tackles.  Nnamdi isn't hitting people, because the ball isn't getting thrown at him.  Just remember...until we get a pass rush that can make sure he isn't chasing after a receiver all day long...results aren't going to be spectacular (same for any corner).

I really don't see why athletes get so much of pass. A worker who gets paid $40K a year will have to adjust to what he or she is not accustomed if management requires it. The same should be expected of a veteran who gets paid millions for 16+ plus weeks of work.

That's not really a complete analogy.  Think of it more like this: I'm an anthropologist...I play around with genetics and stuff like that...I'm good at it.  I don't know the first thing about architecture.  If someone were to tell me though that they are going to pay me 60 million dollars over the next 5 years to be an architect...and that 25 million of that is guaranteed to be mine, even if I suck at it, or for some health reason i can't finish the job...I'd be insane not to take that position.  Or, even more accurately, I'm a biological anthropologist...again, back to genetics, blood tests, human variation, that sort of thing.  If someone offered me the above mentioned job as a cultural anthropologist, a job in which I only know the basics, and have not been trained in the more advanced nuances, or what is expected of me in terms of publishing and such..I'd be nuts not to take it.  I'm still an anthropologist right?  he's still a cornerback right?  They are not plug and play positions.  To a lesser degree, you can say the same thing about wide receivers (hence Gruden's comment about bryant and galloway), defensive tackles...etc.

The bottom line is...its not on Nnamdi to adjust to the system that he's being put in...if he does...good for him, it makes him more versatile and ups his value next time he goes on the open market...he can argue that he has the quality "can adjust to new situations" that makes him more valuable than the next guy who hasn't proven that he can do that.  It is philly's fault for picking a guy and paying him a ton of money who doesn't fit their system...or more realistically, going out and getting a guy who is a cornerstone piece of a defense, and then not building the defensive scheme around him.

Nice analogy but your comparison is like comparing a apples to a pineapple (yes sarcasm). It would be suitable to say what you learned in school to be a biologist may be different than the way you current do at work. If another company offers you triple the salary to do the same thing you would be crazy not to do it. Although it is the same position, the way you do things at your current company will have some differences at the new company. So guess what, you adjust and figure out what you have to do. The Eagles did not ask him to play DT.

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#50 : December 07, 2012, 02:36:30 PM

Yea I think you judge a player for the performance he has with his team. Not the hypotheticals. Credit the team for putting the player in position to be succesful and the player doing what he has to do. You gotta have both to do the best you possibly can.

Exactly.

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#51 : December 07, 2012, 02:53:50 PM

The thing is...there are different ways of playing corner, and very different skill sets and body types that fit those ways of playing.  Lets try again.  You need to screw something together and you have a screw that requires a flat head screwdriver.  All you have is a phillips head screwdriver though. They are both screwdrivers, so it should work, right?  They do the same thing, but they do it in different ways.

The analogies are getting a bit off course and taking away from the main argument though (but I gotta admit, they are kinda fun).

Philly picked the guy up and thought that a good corner is a good corner, no matter what I make him do.  Nnamdi hasn't played off coverage before at this level (I don't know what he did in college).  Its almost a different position.  Are you going to get warren sapp, the quintessential 3 technique tackle to play a 3-4 nose tackle?  He would be worthless. You have to get guys that fit your scheme...not everyone can adapt to a new scheme (New England does a great job at picking guys that are versatile enough to do pretty much anything...I think any of their oline could play any oline position...some of their receivers play db...etc).  That doesn't lessen Nnamdi's value to a team like us that does play bump and run...but it should have to the eagles.  Fortunately for us, he chose to go to them first.  The poor play lowers his value, and we could get an all-pro quality dude to man our left side for a fraction of what he's really worth.

Then again, we might get a dude who has no heart left to play the game anymore.  Who knows?  Even at his current level of suck, he is better than everything we have right now.  Wright can be dumped with no penalty due to the drug thing.  At the WORST give Wright's salary to Scrabble for 4 years...tell scrabble to prove it.  If the bucs have anyone worth anything at the negotiating table, you could get Scrabble for 4 years at a quarter of Wright's salary.  Pick up another FA corner, draft one in the first round, and lets go

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#52 : December 07, 2012, 02:54:09 PM

Two Words:

Nnamdi Asomugha.

Listening to Philly radio, there's a chance he gets cut with the old regime.

Press coverage is supposedly his forte, and is what we insist on playing.

Two words:

You serious?


That guy was overrated from the get off and has been a huge bust in Philly. It's not just that he hasn't been great and hasn't lived up to his giant contract...it's that he has flat out sucked and not lived up to a veteran minimum contract. Why on Earth would we want to sign a 32 year old CB that has been awful for the last two years?

playing corner isn't just like "hey, that dude is awesome...lets get him, plug him into our system and he'll excel."  To some degree, every corner is a "system corner".  Nnamdi is no different...and the system that he's playing in currently is NOT the system he is made to play in.  What they are asking him to do in philly is NOT what he is comfortable doing, or what he enjoys doing.  He is a press corner who bumps a guy at the line, disrupts his route and keeps up with him while running so that when the ball is thrown towards him, he can make a play on it.  Thing is, because he is so good at the press coverage, and timing routes are so important in this league, the ball is rarely ever thrown that way.

The good news about bringing Nnamdi in here is that...thats our system.  That is what we try to do!  He'd fit in!  He's perfect!  The bad news is....Nnamdi has long legs.  The longer the play takes to develop, the more at a disadvantage he is, because he doesn't have the hip fluidity make sharp turns (he relies on his speed to catch back up).  We don't apply enough pressure to the QB to make sure that the plays are short enough.

So yes, bring him in...definitely.  Theres absolutely no reason not to.  You say he's old...but there's almost no wear on those tires.  Look at Terrance Newman...taken in the same year.  He has twice as many tackles as Nnamdi.  Or Brandon Carr...who only has 100 less and 5 years less playing time.  Or Ronde who has 5 years more but almost 1000 more tackles.  Nnamdi isn't hitting people, because the ball isn't getting thrown at him.  Just remember...until we get a pass rush that can make sure he isn't chasing after a receiver all day long...results aren't going to be spectacular (same for any corner).

I really don't see why athletes get so much of pass. A worker who gets paid $40K a year will have to adjust to what he or she is not accustomed if management requires it. The same should be expected of a veteran who gets paid millions for 16+ plus weeks of work.
We're not talking monotonous tasks that people like us deal with, such as switching from using Microsoft Explorer to Firefox. NFL players are specialized athletes and the really good ones are generally really good because they do one thing really well and telling them to do something that they don't do really well is just stupid. You don't tell Carl Lewis to start running marathons because he's a good sprinter, you don't tell Michael Jordan to play center because he's a good shooting guard and you don't tell Nnamdi Asomugha to play zone or off coverage. That's not what he does. It's not like Asomugha is refusing to do different things. He's just not as good at them.

Your second sentence contradicts the rest of your statement. Yes they are specialized athletes. Its not like the Eagles are asking Nnamdi to play fullback. These are professional athletes and supposedly the best in the country. If a CB can't move to another team and adapt to their scheme, he does not deserve to be paid millions. Unlike fans, they study (well suppose to) the game in detail. He should be able to adjust. The average Harry, **CENSORED**, and Tom does it all the time and gets paid a fraction what he does. Like I said earlier, if they moved him to FB I would give him a pass. Since he is still playing CB, I'm not. Adapting to a different scheme does not excuse him being blown in coverage and missing multiple tackles the last two seasons in Philly.


LMAO, I love when ignorant people blame players for taking huge contracts from teams that misuse their skill set.

So if Barber were signed to a man off system for a different team and got eaten alive(because he would) he shouldnt be considered great. He shouldnt be in the HOF conversation. Hes just some system guy who doesnt deserve to be paid millions. he should get the vet minimum. Its the exact same criteria. lol.

I love it when ignorant people misread statements and make inaccurate accusations. Nowhere I blamed Nnamdi for taking a huge contract. My point is simple and clear. If you are being paid like a professional play like one. I do believe teams can take a player out of their elements. However, missing multiple opportunities to make plays when he is right next to the ball is not the Eagles fault. 

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#53 : December 07, 2012, 02:57:54 PM

My point is simple and clear. If you are being paid like a professional play like one.

do you believe that nnamdi is purposefully tanking it?

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#54 : December 07, 2012, 03:26:15 PM

My point is simple and clear. If you are being paid like a professional play like one.

do you believe that nnamdi is purposefully tanking it?

Purposefully no. The Eagles have a lot of problems. I think player chemistry is one of them. However, his individual play has been terrible.

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#55 : December 07, 2012, 04:21:51 PM

Even before he signed his contract in Philly, he was talking about his hollywood career after he retires.  Maybe his heart's just not in the game anymore, and he's more worried about ruining his pretty face then making a tackle.

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#56 : December 07, 2012, 04:48:58 PM

Two Words:

Nnamdi Asomugha.

Listening to Philly radio, there's a chance he gets cut with the old regime.

Press coverage is supposedly his forte, and is what we insist on playing.

Two words:

You serious?


That guy was overrated from the get off and has been a huge bust in Philly. It's not just that he hasn't been great and hasn't lived up to his giant contract...it's that he has flat out sucked and not lived up to a veteran minimum contract. Why on Earth would we want to sign a 32 year old CB that has been awful for the last two years?

playing corner isn't just like "hey, that dude is awesome...lets get him, plug him into our system and he'll excel."  To some degree, every corner is a "system corner".  Nnamdi is no different...and the system that he's playing in currently is NOT the system he is made to play in.  What they are asking him to do in philly is NOT what he is comfortable doing, or what he enjoys doing.  He is a press corner who bumps a guy at the line, disrupts his route and keeps up with him while running so that when the ball is thrown towards him, he can make a play on it.  Thing is, because he is so good at the press coverage, and timing routes are so important in this league, the ball is rarely ever thrown that way.

The good news about bringing Nnamdi in here is that...thats our system.  That is what we try to do!  He'd fit in!  He's perfect!  The bad news is....Nnamdi has long legs.  The longer the play takes to develop, the more at a disadvantage he is, because he doesn't have the hip fluidity make sharp turns (he relies on his speed to catch back up).  We don't apply enough pressure to the QB to make sure that the plays are short enough.

So yes, bring him in...definitely.  Theres absolutely no reason not to.  You say he's old...but there's almost no wear on those tires.  Look at Terrance Newman...taken in the same year.  He has twice as many tackles as Nnamdi.  Or Brandon Carr...who only has 100 less and 5 years less playing time.  Or Ronde who has 5 years more but almost 1000 more tackles.  Nnamdi isn't hitting people, because the ball isn't getting thrown at him.  Just remember...until we get a pass rush that can make sure he isn't chasing after a receiver all day long...results aren't going to be spectacular (same for any corner).

I really don't see why athletes get so much of pass. A worker who gets paid $40K a year will have to adjust to what he or she is not accustomed if management requires it. The same should be expected of a veteran who gets paid millions for 16+ plus weeks of work.
We're not talking monotonous tasks that people like us deal with, such as switching from using Microsoft Explorer to Firefox. NFL players are specialized athletes and the really good ones are generally really good because they do one thing really well and telling them to do something that they don't do really well is just stupid. You don't tell Carl Lewis to start running marathons because he's a good sprinter, you don't tell Michael Jordan to play center because he's a good shooting guard and you don't tell Nnamdi Asomugha to play zone or off coverage. That's not what he does. It's not like Asomugha is refusing to do different things. He's just not as good at them.
Thank you - that is exactly what the situation is.  Philly made a lot of iffy personnel moves in the last couple of years - Nnamdi is one of the more egregious

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#57 : December 07, 2012, 09:49:29 PM

DRC doesn't like to tackle and not physical even a little, not a Schiano player..Aso is done as a top CB, wouldn't  want any part of either.

There will be better FA options, and the draft is loaded at the CB position, strongest CB draft in awhile...DL would be second strongest position in this draft

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#58 : December 08, 2012, 02:29:57 PM

Guys, even without the system being right for him, I'd still take scrabble over any of our current corners. Kind of a silly subject to talk about.

There would only be two downsides to such a move. His age, and his contract.

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#59 : December 08, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Chris Houstons been a beast for me in my Madden franchise since signing him a couple offseasons ago. Just sayin. HAHA

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