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Benchwarmer#1

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#15 : December 07, 2012, 08:21:59 PM

Quote from: yuccaneers link=topic=1301
567.msg1823031#msg1823031 date=1354926792
Digging deeper - when you look at what the Bucs would have had to pay for a RB like Foster or Forte on the open market compared to drafting Martin that's an advantage for the Bucs not only in salary but longevity as Martin is younger. Paying for offensive lineman on the open market rather then running backs in a devauled era shows informational advantage as in they used available information to make the right decision based on resources and available talent - Martin is third in the league in rushing (Granted much without Nicks or Joseph)

I would also agree with others about the CB position Talib and Wright represent huge value and salary a first round pick and $7.5 million shows Dominik values corners hell he himself stated you can never have enough. Spending a second, third and re-signing Black shows the Bucs think linebackers are important.

Dom was here when Brooks was playing. He knows how valuable they can be. Even many draft/prospect gurus have labeled LD as dbrooks-lite.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

Biggs3535

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#16 : December 08, 2012, 10:53:15 AM

Excellent article and maybe the best I've ever read from Sander. We've seen where we think the Bucs like to and don't like to spend resources, but I can't say we've seen any benefits. They value strong safeties and don't value free safeties and cornerbacks and end up with the worst pass defense in the NFL. They value guards and don't value offensive tackles and at the very least in the last two games the tackles have been murdered by edge rushers and thus the entire offense shut down. They value running backs but because of problems with the offensive line and defense, sometimes situational football dictates they can't even bother to run the ball.

I think a little perspective around the team and it's needs the last few years would be in order for an article like this.  Saying we don't value corners, for example.  I'm pretty sure that the feeling was we had this year covered with Talib and Wright.  That's not "not valuing corners".   

Except they used on a Top Ten pick on a Safety instead of a CB.  Unless you're telling me the decision makers didn't know that today's NFL uses a lot of 3WR+ sets, that's valuing a SS over a CB.


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#17 : December 08, 2012, 01:00:35 PM

Excellent article and maybe the best I've ever read from Sander. We've seen where we think the Bucs like to and don't like to spend resources, but I can't say we've seen any benefits. They value strong safeties and don't value free safeties and cornerbacks and end up with the worst pass defense in the NFL. They value guards and don't value offensive tackles and at the very least in the last two games the tackles have been murdered by edge rushers and thus the entire offense shut down. They value running backs but because of problems with the offensive line and defense, sometimes situational football dictates they can't even bother to run the ball.

I think a little perspective around the team and it's needs the last few years would be in order for an article like this.  Saying we don't value corners, for example.  I'm pretty sure that the feeling was we had this year covered with Talib and Wright.  That's not "not valuing corners".   

Except they used on a Top Ten pick on a Safety instead of a CB.  Unless you're telling me the decision makers didn't know that today's NFL uses a lot of 3WR+ sets, that's valuing a SS over a CB.

I think the logic was that they needed better tackling from that back end (Sean Jones and T-Jack underwhelmed) while also getting a guy that could tangle with the likes of Tony Gonzalez and Jimmy Graham. In theory having Talib, Wright, Ronde AND Lavonte David on the field at the same time would've given the defence alot of flexibility....in theory....

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#18 : December 08, 2012, 02:01:29 PM

Next year's personnel philosophy should be :

Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners cornCorners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners

pass rusher

Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners Corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners corners

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Benchwarmer#1

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#19 : December 08, 2012, 02:17:16 PM

Lmfao DJ. No doubt.

Actually, I don't even want to hear "Bucs" and "save" in the same paragraph. Not after the past several years.

 They make a huge trade for a cb that fits this system, and a strong bullrusher from the draft (or flip-flop), I'm confident Tampa would see playoffs next season.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

Dolorous Jason

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#20 : December 08, 2012, 02:23:49 PM

Lmfao DJ. No doubt.

Actually, I don't even want to hear "Bucs" and "save" in the same paragraph. Not after the past several years.

 They make a huge trade for a cb that fits this system, and a strong bullrusher from the draft (or flip-flop), I'm confident Tampa would see playoffs next season.

hell yeah.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

dbucfan

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#21 : December 08, 2012, 04:24:37 PM

Quote from: yuccaneers link=topic=1301
567.msg1823031#msg1823031 date=1354926792
Digging deeper - when you look at what the Bucs would have had to pay for a RB like Foster or Forte on the open market compared to drafting Martin that's an advantage for the Bucs not only in salary but longevity as Martin is younger. Paying for offensive lineman on the open market rather then running backs in a devauled era shows informational advantage as in they used available information to make the right decision based on resources and available talent - Martin is third in the league in rushing (Granted much without Nicks or Joseph)

I would also agree with others about the CB position Talib and Wright represent huge value and salary a first round pick and $7.5 million shows Dominik values corners hell he himself stated you can never have enough. Spending a second, third and re-signing Black shows the Bucs think linebackers are important.

Dom was here when Brooks was playing. He knows how valuable they can be. Even many draft/prospect gurus have labeled LD as dbrooks-lite.
It is pretty easy to see the value of HOF LBs - now finding such guys in the draft would be a handy little talent....

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Feel Real Good

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#22 : December 08, 2012, 04:24:56 PM

Excellent article and maybe the best I've ever read from Sander. We've seen where we think the Bucs like to and don't like to spend resources, but I can't say we've seen any benefits. They value strong safeties and don't value free safeties and cornerbacks and end up with the worst pass defense in the NFL. They value guards and don't value offensive tackles and at the very least in the last two games the tackles have been murdered by edge rushers and thus the entire offense shut down. They value running backs but because of problems with the offensive line and defense, sometimes situational football dictates they can't even bother to run the ball.

I think a little perspective around the team and it's needs the last few years would be in order for an article like this.  Saying we don't value corners, for example.  I'm pretty sure that the feeling was we had this year covered with Talib and Wright.  That's not "not valuing corners".   

Except they used on a Top Ten pick on a Safety instead of a CB.  Unless you're telling me the decision makers didn't know that today's NFL uses a lot of 3WR+ sets, that's valuing a SS over a CB.

I think the logic was that they needed better tackling from that back end (Sean Jones and T-Jack underwhelmed) while also getting a guy that could tangle with the likes of Tony Gonzalez and Jimmy Graham. In theory having Talib, Wright, Ronde AND Lavonte David on the field at the same time would've given the defence alot of flexibility....in theory....
The logic was they needed to stop the run when playing 11 games against Cam Newton, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Robert Griffin III, Philip Rivers, and Tony Romo.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

dbucfan

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#23 : December 08, 2012, 04:28:42 PM

Going to have to be a really good safety for a really long time to make that decision right... just my .02

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#24 : December 08, 2012, 07:43:14 PM

I am sure  Barron will do fine, but the pick was more than just Barron.

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Benchwarmer#1

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#25 : December 08, 2012, 10:17:47 PM

Going to have to be a really good safety for a really long time to make that decision right... just my .02

I think one should reserve judgement until after next season in the NFCS. Usually they have one or two top offenses yearly.

Tough to compare his stats to others when every team in the division has a "elite" QB. Other divisions aren't so talent laden with QB's.

At least the kid played well for a couple of games. Sometimes, your first round pick doesn't show up at all. And that's when you really start to worry.
: December 08, 2012, 10:19:25 PM Benchwarmer#1

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

dbucfan

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#26 : December 08, 2012, 11:24:04 PM

I'm not judging his performance at this point.  Honestly, absent CBs and much of a rush it's pretty hard to do an evaluation.  But - as you noted - it is early to evaluate a first year player.  We will see what his play is like next year.

And Vin - I like how the bucs moved about in the draft - but - a first round pick needs to produce.  So indeed, he will be looked at just like all the other first rounders...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Dolorous Jason

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#27 : December 09, 2012, 08:36:38 AM

I'm not judging his performance at this point.  Honestly, absent CBs and much of a rush it's pretty hard to do an evaluation.  But - as you noted - it is early to evaluate a first year player.  We will see what his play is like next year.

And Vin - I like how the bucs moved about in the draft - but - a first round pick needs to produce. 

Not if you are Girly Man. He produces nothing and people still defend him...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Dolorous Jason

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#28 : December 09, 2012, 10:00:31 AM

I'm not judging his performance at this point.  Honestly, absent CBs and much of a rush it's pretty hard to do an evaluation.  But - as you noted - it is early to evaluate a first year player.  We will see what his play is like next year.

And Vin - I like how the bucs moved about in the draft - but - a first round pick needs to produce. 

Not if you are Girly Man. He produces nothing and people still defend him...

Ah, the thought process of simpleton.


What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Biggs3535

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#29 : December 09, 2012, 01:59:42 PM

I'm not judging his performance at this point.  Honestly, absent CBs and much of a rush it's pretty hard to do an evaluation.  But - as you noted - it is early to evaluate a first year player.  We will see what his play is like next year.

And Vin - I like how the bucs moved about in the draft - but - a first round pick needs to produce. 

Not if you are Girly Man. He produces nothing and people still defend him...

Ah, the thought process of a simpleton.

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