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dalbuc

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#150 : February 04, 2013, 10:00:16 AM

He proved he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. Yes he needs a solid team around him but he did it. I always thought of him to be similar to Freeman. I think Freeman can be that good and be a part of a team like that. They just need to keep building and Freeman needs to learn from his mistakes and get better. The Bucs could be like this Ravens team. A better secondary and more consistent play on offense.

Except he didn't have all solid team effort really. I mean short of Flacco playing out of his mind in 2 of the 4 games they're not winning anything.  Their best game was the NE game where the team played well

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BucDaFackUp

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#151 : February 04, 2013, 10:12:56 AM

He proved he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. Yes he needs a solid team around him but he did it. I always thought of him to be similar to Freeman. I think Freeman can be that good and be a part of a team like that. They just need to keep building and Freeman needs to learn from his mistakes and get better. The Bucs could be like this Ravens team. A better secondary and more consistent play on offense.

Except he didn't have all solid team effort really. I mean short of Flacco playing out of his mind in 2 of the 4 games they're not winning anything.  Their best game was the NE game where the team played well

Agree with this...sometimes QB's get the MVP because they have the most touches and have most ability to influence outcomes but Joe MADE PLAYS when it counted. He stayed calm when everything got hairy and delivered...point blank....that's how you make distinction between a "good" and "great" QB.

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#152 : February 04, 2013, 10:22:07 AM

He proved he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. Yes he needs a solid team around him but he did it. I always thought of him to be similar to Freeman. I think Freeman can be that good and be a part of a team like that. They just need to keep building and Freeman needs to learn from his mistakes and get better. The Bucs could be like this Ravens team. A better secondary and more consistent play on offense.

Except he didn't have all solid team effort really. I mean short of Flacco playing out of his mind in 2 of the 4 games they're not winning anything.  Their best game was the NE game where the team played well

Exactly. The Ravens defense is not a dominant force anymore and even though Ray rice is great, the run game has not been great. Joe was the difference maker this year.


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#153 : February 04, 2013, 10:33:20 AM

Freeman needs to progress and learn from his mistakes. Having a solid D and a solid O-line would help matters, but Josh Freeman can be a very good QB in this league and he has shown us that. We've all heard it before, 'its all about getting hot at the right time in the NFL'.  Joe Flacco put a few good games together, when it was most important, this season and as a result his team won it all. We've seen Freeman go on similar stretches, just not at such opportune times. The comparison between Flacco and Freeman is similar during such stretches, lets look at the most recent example of what I mean.

Freeman -
4 WEEKS (Week 7-Week 10)
comp    att     %    TD    INT    sack
  75     128  58.6  10      0          5

Flacco-
4 WEEKS (Week 18- Week 22)
comp    att      %    TD    INT    sack
73        126  57.9   11      0         6

Consistency, however, has been Freeman's biggest down fall as evidenced by a TD:int ratio of 4:9 during the last four games of the year. So I think once the Bucs add a few more pieces to our defense and once we get some key players back along the offensive line we will be in great shape. In 2013, Freeman does need to show us he has improved his decision making process though. I think another year in mike Sullivan's system will make him a much smarter and more consistent QB.


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#154 : February 04, 2013, 10:37:34 AM

Fine, I'm a moron... but Flacco still stinks.
Well at least you admit it.


Thats some funny stuff right there.

As for my .02, Flacco is far from stinking. Dude went 11/0... has been in the playoffs every year of his career, and has the record for playoff wins on the road. Can't credit Ray Ray for ALL of that.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

bradentonian

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#155 : February 04, 2013, 10:39:49 AM

I think the Freeman/Flacco comparison is very valid.  They have a very similar playing style and similar strengths/weaknesses.


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#156 : February 04, 2013, 10:39:53 AM

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000135690/Super-Bowl-XLVII-Ravens-vs-49ers-highlights

Two plays exemplify Flacco's rise to elite status in my mind.

* 1:50 mark he throws on the run to his right and still give his receiver a chance to make a play...which he does....awesome.

* 10:35 mark he checks off a run call and throws back shoulder to Boldin on key 3rd down late in the game....excellence.

He brings his game up a level when it counts and that's what elite guys do...I retract my earlier statement in comparing Josh and Joe....the only similarities they have now are their initials.

In reference to the bolded portion, Peyton Manning in that same situation, checked to a run and a punt.... and was sent home because of it. I agree with you and must give credit where credit is due.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#157 : February 04, 2013, 10:43:07 AM

Freeman needs to progress and learn from his mistakes. Having a solid D and a solid O-line would help matters, but Josh Freeman can be a very good QB in this league and he has shown us that. We've all heard it before, 'its all about getting hot at the right time in the NFL'.  Joe Flacco put a few good games together, when it was most important, this season and as a result his team won it all. We've seen Freeman go on similar stretches, just not at such opportune times. The comparison between Flacco and Freeman is similar during such stretches, lets look at the most recent example of what I mean.

Freeman -
4 WEEKS (Week 7-Week 10)
comp    att     %    TD    INT    sack
  75     128  58.6  10      0          5

Flacco-
4 WEEKS (Week 18- Week 22)
comp    att      %    TD    INT    sack
73        126  57.9   11      0         6

Consistency, however, has been Freeman's biggest down fall as evidenced by a TD:int ratio of 4:9 during the last four games of the year. So I think once the Bucs add a few more pieces to our defense and once we get some key players back along the offensive line we will be in great shape. In 2013, Freeman does need to show us he has improved his decision making process though. I think another year in mike Sullivan's system will make him a much smarter and more consistent QB.

While the numbers you bring up are similar, consider the competition that each QB faced. Flacco's last three wins of the season came against arguably 3 of the best 5 teams in the league this year. Freeman's wins during those 4 weeks came against 1 playoff team, and 3 teams with losing records.


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#158 : February 04, 2013, 10:58:05 AM

Freeman needs to progress and learn from his mistakes. Having a solid D and a solid O-line would help matters, but Josh Freeman can be a very good QB in this league and he has shown us that. We've all heard it before, 'its all about getting hot at the right time in the NFL'.  Joe Flacco put a few good games together, when it was most important, this season and as a result his team won it all. We've seen Freeman go on similar stretches, just not at such opportune times. The comparison between Flacco and Freeman is similar during such stretches, lets look at the most recent example of what I mean.

Freeman -
4 WEEKS (Week 7-Week 10)
comp    att     %    TD    INT    sack
  75     128  58.6  10      0          5

Flacco-
4 WEEKS (Week 18- Week 22)
comp    att      %    TD    INT    sack
73        126  57.9   11      0         6

Consistency, however, has been Freeman's biggest down fall as evidenced by a TD:int ratio of 4:9 during the last four games of the year. So I think once the Bucs add a few more pieces to our defense and once we get some key players back along the offensive line we will be in great shape. In 2013, Freeman does need to show us he has improved his decision making process though. I think another year in mike Sullivan's system will make him a much smarter and more consistent QB.

While the numbers you bring up are similar, consider the competition that each QB faced. Flacco's last three wins of the season came against arguably 3 of the best 5 teams in the league this year. Freeman's wins during those 4 weeks came against 1 playoff team, and 3 teams with losing records.

Yes, but he difference in competition is almost nullified. While Flacco was backed up by one of the NFL's premier passing defenses (and has been his whole career), Freeman was supported by what was historically one of  the NFL's worst passing defenses. Freeman was also playing behind an O-line riddled with injuries. Lets not forget that while Flacco got the pleasure of playing behind two pro bowl offensive linemen this season in Yanda and Grubbs,  Freeman was playing behind an O-line largely composed of backup players. Penn and Zuttah(who was moved from his starting position because of injuries) were the only starting caliber O-linemen the Bucs fielded for the majority of the season.


chace1986

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#159 : February 04, 2013, 11:08:19 AM

Freeman needs to progress and learn from his mistakes. Having a solid D and a solid O-line would help matters, but Josh Freeman can be a very good QB in this league and he has shown us that. We've all heard it before, 'its all about getting hot at the right time in the NFL'.  Joe Flacco put a few good games together, when it was most important, this season and as a result his team won it all. We've seen Freeman go on similar stretches, just not at such opportune times. The comparison between Flacco and Freeman is similar during such stretches, lets look at the most recent example of what I mean.

Freeman -
4 WEEKS (Week 7-Week 10)
comp    att     %    TD    INT    sack
  75     128  58.6  10      0          5

Flacco-
4 WEEKS (Week 18- Week 22)
comp    att      %    TD    INT    sack
73        126  57.9   11      0         6

Consistency, however, has been Freeman's biggest down fall as evidenced by a TD:int ratio of 4:9 during the last four games of the year. So I think once the Bucs add a few more pieces to our defense and once we get some key players back along the offensive line we will be in great shape. In 2013, Freeman does need to show us he has improved his decision making process though. I think another year in mike Sullivan's system will make him a much smarter and more consistent QB.

While the numbers you bring up are similar, consider the competition that each QB faced. Flacco's last three wins of the season came against arguably 3 of the best 5 teams in the league this year. Freeman's wins during those 4 weeks came against 1 playoff team, and 3 teams with losing records.

Yes, but he difference in competition is almost nullified. While Flacco was backed up by one of the NFL's premier passing defenses (and has been his whole career), Freeman was supported by what was historically one of  the NFL's worst passing defenses. Freeman was also playing behind an O-line riddled with injuries. Lets not forget that while Flacco got the pleasure of playing behind two pro bowl offensive linemen this season in Yanda and Grubbs,  Freeman was playing behind an O-line largely composed of backup players. Penn and Zuttah(who was moved from his starting position because of injuries) were the only starting caliber O-linemen the Bucs fielded for the majority of the season.

To say that Baltimore's pass D was premier this year, is a stretch. They were middle of the pack in many regards this year....and while they weren't was bad as the Bucs pass D, they were not a top 10(and in some cases top 15) pass D.

Also, Freeman may have had some injuries in front of him, but the pass blocking was solid for most of the year, which is a huge credit to Bostad.

So it's definitely not a "wash", so to speak.


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#160 : February 04, 2013, 11:10:22 AM

Freeman needs to progress and learn from his mistakes. Having a solid D and a solid O-line would help matters, but Josh Freeman can be a very good QB in this league and he has shown us that. We've all heard it before, 'its all about getting hot at the right time in the NFL'.  Joe Flacco put a few good games together, when it was most important, this season and as a result his team won it all. We've seen Freeman go on similar stretches, just not at such opportune times. The comparison between Flacco and Freeman is similar during such stretches, lets look at the most recent example of what I mean.

Freeman -
4 WEEKS (Week 7-Week 10)
comp    att     %    TD    INT    sack
  75     128  58.6  10      0          5

Flacco-
4 WEEKS (Week 18- Week 22)
comp    att      %    TD    INT    sack
73        126  57.9   11      0         6

Consistency, however, has been Freeman's biggest down fall as evidenced by a TD:int ratio of 4:9 during the last four games of the year. So I think once the Bucs add a few more pieces to our defense and once we get some key players back along the offensive line we will be in great shape. In 2013, Freeman does need to show us he has improved his decision making process though. I think another year in mike Sullivan's system will make him a much smarter and more consistent QB.

While the numbers you bring up are similar, consider the competition that each QB faced. Flacco's last three wins of the season came against arguably 3 of the best 5 teams in the league this year. Freeman's wins during those 4 weeks came against 1 playoff team, and 3 teams with losing records.

Yes, but he difference in competition is almost nullified. While Flacco was backed up by one of the NFL's premier passing defenses (and has been his whole career), Freeman was supported by what was historically one of  the NFL's worst passing defenses. Freeman was also playing behind an O-line riddled with injuries. Lets not forget that while Flacco got the pleasure of playing behind two pro bowl offensive linemen this season in Yanda and Grubbs,  Freeman was playing behind an O-line largely composed of backup players. Penn and Zuttah(who was moved from his starting position because of injuries) were the only starting caliber O-linemen the Bucs fielded for the majority of the season.

'...one of the NFL's premier passing defenses..."

Uh, they were ranked 17th in the league this season in pass defense...hardly 'premier.'

Also, you can't pick a 4-game stretch that happened during the middle of the season and compare it to one that happened in the playoffs and SB that included a final 3 games against Denver, NE, and SF...c'mon man, that's an absurd comparison.

People will do anything to defend Freeman. Stop blaming the Bucs defense for his inconsistency.

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#161 : February 04, 2013, 11:20:52 AM

He proved he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. Yes he needs a solid team around him but he did it. I always thought of him to be similar to Freeman. I think Freeman can be that good and be a part of a team like that. They just need to keep building and Freeman needs to learn from his mistakes and get better. The Bucs could be like this Ravens team. A better secondary and more consistent play on offense.

Except he didn't have all solid team effort really. I mean short of Flacco playing out of his mind in 2 of the 4 games they're not winning anything.  Their best game was the NE game where the team played well

Exactly. The Ravens defense is not a dominant force anymore and even though Ray rice is great, the run game has not been great. Joe was the difference maker this year.

They still have a much better defense than we do. Thus a better team. Their defense held that 49ers offense to 6 points in the first half. Kap would have shredded our defense no matter what time of game. Its a team game and Flacco played great and did his part but the defense did their part as well. Sure they arent a great defense but they are good and our defense is not good. Good at stopping the run but nothing else. If our team improves our defense and Freeman improves his game they can be this good.

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#162 : February 04, 2013, 12:27:14 PM

Yeah, I guess thats what I was trying to say^^

and yes, I overstepped it a bit when I said Baltimore has a 'premier' pass defense.


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#163 : February 04, 2013, 12:46:03 PM

Flacco isn't "elite". He is pretty darn good, but not elite. To bring the original topic back into play Josh and Joe are very much alike. Both are big, strong armed, and are some of the most irking because of their inconsistency. As TampaBayBucks05 stated, when Freeman was on his hot streak compared to Flacco's they are practically identical. On the flip side they have had games and stretches where you are trying to figure out if they woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
Flacco and Freeman are probably some of, if not the top quarterbacks that have Jekyll and Hyde syndrome. With their talent and improved consistency they could be top 10 QB's, but they tend to make things a lot harder than they should be.


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#164 : February 04, 2013, 03:35:57 PM

Let me tell you the difference in Josh and Joe.  Joe plays like he wants to win a ball game and Josh doesn't.  The truth behind their game; Josh plays scared and Joe plays brave.  Last night, and throughout the playoffs Joe has stood in the pocket, made timely scrambles, and put the ball where only his receivers could catch it.  That check down last night to Boldin on 3rd down was a thing of beauty.  And Hate said it earlier, the guy is a winner; goes to the playoffs every year and wins the Super Bowl in less than 5 years.

Josh Freeman is not Joe Flacco...I don't believe he will EVER be.  The problem with Freeman is somebody told him he was good and he forgot to go out and prove it.  You're only as good as the product you deliver. 
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