Freeman not the answer...now we know

[SunnyD]

Freeman is not a hall of fame QB.

That should kill any and all comparisons to Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning.

[JavaRay]

Freeman is not a hall of fame QB.

That should kill any and all comparisons to Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning.

How about the comparisons to Jesus?

[Pepsi]

QB's with more TD's than Freeman: Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers.

QB's with less INT's than Freeman (400+ attempts) : Tom Brady

This thread is nothing but further proof of what a complete joke of a fanbase this team has.

This

those QBs that you're comparing Freeman to would have sliced and diced the Eagles defense. Bucs get 21 points against one of the league's worst teams, and 7 of them were gifted by a botched punt.

Again, why do you judge him on a game by game basis? Brady lost to the Cardinals in Foxboro. Ridiculous.

I've been judging him year to year basis and game to game, and I go to around three training camp practices a year. Statistically good season or bad, he is not accurate, Doesn't see the field well,  does a poor job making reads, and he never manipulates the defense with pump fakes and looking off defenders. He is a below average NFL QB in terms of passing, and an above average NFL QB in terms of physical skill set. If he is surrounded by awesome weapons and a good defense, he should play well well enough to win more games then he loses, but who wouldnt?

when good QBs complete passes multiple plays in a row, you don't think anything of it. When Freeman completes a pass I catch myself saying "nice throw!" when in reality  any QB on an NFL roster should be able to make it that throw.

I will give Freeman credit for 2 things. He is usually pretty clutch. and when he has a good player he's not afraid to trust them to go make a play even if they're covered. Calvin Johnson would never have had a slow start to the season if Freeman was his QB.

I know people here peg me as a Freeman hater, but I root for him every week of course. However, my stance is and forever will be the Bucs would be a better team with an accurate QB/ a QB known for being a good passer. Since I know Freeman isn't being replaced anytime soon, I am very glad we have Vjax, Mike Williams, Nicks, Joseph, Penn, Doug Martin all on the same team in the future. Its not hard to be successful with that group.

[Pepsi]

QB's with more TD's than Freeman: Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers.

QB's with less INT's than Freeman (400+ attempts) : Tom Brady

This thread is nothing but further proof of what a complete joke of a fanbase this team has.

This

To me a better joke is all the people who have been watching football for so long but still think stats tell the real story. If data and text didnt exist and there was no way to record and archive stats, then you would have to see for yourself what exactly is happening and make the judgement calls. If you just use your brain and eyes who would you think the best QBs are? Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. That would be the unanimous top 4 that everyone would pick without stats of yardage, TDs, previous win loss records, or post season records. Now using the same no stat analysis on Freeman, he would not even remotely be any where near those 4 QBs. Yet you are basically saying he is close to them. If that is not what you are saying then your post has zero meaning so I don't know why you think "thread is nothing but further proof of what a complete joke of a fanbase this team has."

[BucDaFackUp]

QB's with more TD's than Freeman: Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers.

QB's with less INT's than Freeman (400+ attempts) : Tom Brady

This thread is nothing but further proof of what a complete joke of a fanbase this team has.

This

those QBs that you're comparing Freeman to would have sliced and diced the Eagles defense. Bucs get 21 points against one of the league's worst teams, and 7 of them were gifted by a botched punt.

Again, why do you judge him on a game by game basis? Brady lost to the Cardinals in Foxboro. Ridiculous.

I've been judging him year to year basis and game to game, and I go to around three training camp practices a year. Statistically good season or bad, he is not accurate, Doesn't see the field well,  does a poor job making reads, and he never manipulates the defense with pump fakes and looking off defenders. He is a below average NFL QB in terms of passing, and an above average NFL QB in terms of physical skill set. If he is surrounded by awesome weapons and a good defense, he should play well well enough to win more games then he loses, but who wouldnt?

when good QBs complete passes multiple plays in a row, you don't think anything of it. When Freeman completes a pass I catch myself saying "nice throw!" when in reality  any QB on an NFL roster should be able to make it that throw.

I will give Freeman credit for 2 things. He is usually pretty clutch. and when he has a good player he's not afraid to trust them to go make a play even if they're covered. Calvin Johnson would never have had a slow start to the season if Freeman was his QB.

I know people here peg me as a Freeman hater, but I root for him every week of course. However, my stance is and forever will be the Bucs would be a better team with an accurate QB/ a QB known for being a good passer. Since I know Freeman isn't being replaced anytime soon, I am very glad we have Vjax, Mike Williams, Nicks, Joseph, Penn, Doug Martin all on the same team in the future. Its not hard to be successful with that group.

The choir sings amen...

[CBWx2]

To me a better joke is all the people who have been watching football for so long but still think stats tell the real story. If data and text didnt exist and there was no way to record and archive stats, then you would have to see for yourself what exactly is happening and make the judgement calls. If you just use your brain and eyes who would you think the best QBs are? Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. That would be the unanimous top 4 that everyone would pick without stats of yardage, TDs, previous win loss records, or post season records. Now using the same no stat analysis on Freeman, he would not even remotely be any where near those 4 QBs. Yet you are basically saying he is close to them. If that is not what you are saying then your post has zero meaning so I don't know why you think "thread is nothing but further proof of what a complete joke of a fanbase this team has."

So where does Freeman rank in your opinion? Bottom 3rd of league?

You say he's a below average passer, and we should ignore the stats and just trust you on that, yet the guy is in the top 5 in the league in TD passes, top 10 in QBR, is 3rd in the NFL for fewest INT's per attempt among QB's with 400+ attempts behind Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, is tied for 5th in the league in yards per attempt, and is the youngest QB to rank this high in any of those stats. In fact, he and Matt Ryan are the only two QB's under 30 who rank in the top 10 in two or more of those stats.

So no, I don't think Freeman is a top 4 QB, and my reason for mentioning the likes of Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning isn't to say that he is the same as those guys. But when you have a QB that puts up stats that are on par with the top 4 QB's in the NFL, especially at the ripe age of 24, most fan bases would see this as encouraging, and not **CENSORED**, piss, moan, and call for a replacement whenever he has a bad game or throws a bad pass. Most fan bases would see that QB's don't hit their f-ing peaks at 24 years old, and that he's only going to get better baring injury or any other unforeseen setbacks. That's why this fan base is a complete f-ing joke. Take that however you like.

[chace1986]

CBWx2.

Do you think Freeman deserves any portion of blame or criticism for his performances in the Philly, Denver, Dallas, or Washington games?

Also, how much do you value stats? Do you look at them as the primary barometer of a QBs play? Do you think some stats are inflated on a situational basis and can make a player look as if he is performing a little better than what he is putting on "tape"?

[CBWx2]

CBWx2.

Do you think Freeman deserves any portion of blame or criticism for his performances in the Philly, Denver, Dallas, or Washington games?

Criticism for all. Hell, you can easily criticize him for some things he did in the games he played well in. Some portion of blame for Dallas and Denver. He did enough in the Philly and Washington games for us to have won. The reason we lost didn't fall on him. There is also a world of difference between criticizing a poor performance and  starting a thread stating that Freeman is not the answer and needs to be cut or traded every time we lose a football game.

Also, how much do you value stats? Do you look at them as the primary barometer of a QBs play? Do you think some stats are inflated on a situational basis and can make a player look as if he is performing a little better than what he is putting on "tape"?

I do look at them as the primary barometer. Do they tell the complete story? No. But I find it a complete impossibility for any QB to throw the football 33 times a game, post stats that place him in the top 5 in many passing categories, and still be a garbage QB. But maybe I'm just silly that way.

[Pepsi]

CBWx2.

Do you think Freeman deserves any portion of blame or criticism for his performances in the Philly, Denver, Dallas, or Washington games?

Criticism for all. Hell, you can easily criticize him for some things he did in the games he played well in. Some portion of blame for Dallas and Denver. He did enough in the Philly and Washington games for us to have won. The reason we lost didn't fall on him. There is also a world of difference between criticizing a poor performance and  starting a thread stating that Freeman is not the answer and needs to be cut or traded every time we lose a football game.

Also, how much do you value stats? Do you look at them as the primary barometer of a QBs play? Do you think some stats are inflated on a situational basis and can make a player look as if he is performing a little better than what he is putting on "tape"?

I do look at them as the primary barometer. Do they tell the complete story? No. But I find it a complete impossibility for any QB to throw the football 33 times a game, post stats that place him in the top 5 in many passing categories, and still be a garbage QB. But maybe I'm just silly that way.

Not many people who dislike him have said he is garbage. I and maybe a few others say he is average at best. I will simplify my argument and reason for not being a huge fan of Freeman. As simply put as I can, he is not accurate. Him being 24 is a counter I hear all the time and I don't buy it at all. He wasn't billed as an accurate passer coming out of college. He wasn't accurate his first year in the NFL, his Second, his 3rd or his 4th. Since he's only 24 that's supposed to mean he is inevitably going to get better? his accuracy issues are not related to age or experience. He often throws too high, too far, or too short, even when he is staring at an open guy. That has nothing to do with some sort of NFL learning curve, plus he's had 4 years of NFL experience now anyway. There is no excuse for that, its not like 25 or 26 years old is the age where you finally develop accuracy. Its just not there. So as I've stated before, the talent around him is good enough for him to have success, but I would rather have a accurate passing QB. I believe the Bucs will ultimately be limited and fall short of their final goal because Freeman is not an on target passer. If you read stats off to me then sure, it sounds like I'm dead wrong.

" I find it a complete impossibility for any QB to throw the football 33 times a game, post stats that place him in the top 5 in many passing categories, and still be a garbage QB. But maybe I'm just silly that way."

are you willing to replace the word "garbage" with 'inaccurate"?

 I find it a complete impossibility for any QB to throw the football 33 times a game, post stats that place him in the top 5 in many passing categories, and still be a innacurate QB. But maybe I'm just silly that way.

^^^ that seems like a statement you would agree to make. So either your logic of relating stats to reality is faulty or I am wrong and Freeman is clearly a very accurate QB.

[chace1986]

The "he is only 24" is pretty much always used to counter a criticism...which makes it an excuse. I would use the word "garbage" when describing the "only 24" argument.

There is doubt that he is inaccurate most of the time. The frustration I experience is when I see him thread the needle like when he did on the Vjax TD vs the Panthers or the laser to Mike Williams in the Giants game that Rolle knocked loose. He can make big time throws, but they are few and far between. The inaccurate passes heavily out weigh the impossibly accurate ones.

I'm not ready to say its time for a new QB. I'm not ready to say that we will absolutely not win with the guy. He is still an unknown because he is so wildly inconsistent. I honestly hope he pans out, but he has shown me nothing so far to make me confident that he will lead us to the playoffs/SB.

[Bayfisher]

The vendetta has begun.  I figured it would wait until the season was over but you will never win over fans that boo you in game 4 of a new system. 

[GameTime]

freeman probably shouldnt have played well earlier in the season and raised expectations of himself. 

[Bayfisher]

freeman probably shouldnt have played well earlier in the season and raised expectations of himself.

Any logical fan without an axe to grind knew that the system would have adjustment time.  Timing alone would take five or six games.

[GameTime]

Any logical fan without an axe to grind knew that the system would have adjustment time.  Timing alone would take five or six games.

so by the 13th game the timing should be there?

[chace1986]

freeman probably shouldnt have played well earlier in the season and raised expectations of himself.

Any logical fan without an axe to grind knew that the system would have adjustment time.  Timing alone would take five or six games.

Mind explaining why the offense has seen a significant drop off over the last month?