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jhop88

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#30 : December 11, 2012, 11:55:51 AM

The problem with the call is our DB personnel sucks and the coaching on that side of the ball is questionable.  Hopefully that improves big time before next season.  If we can't hold a lead in that situation with a back up qb, rb, te, and no #1 wr, then we have much bigger issues.

Am I too nieve to think Schiano didn't realize the issues w/the secondary and the defense in general prior to that last drive? The play call on 3rd and 8 makes me think he's that nieve (or stubborn).

jhop88

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#31 : December 11, 2012, 11:57:18 AM

Your pass D is the weakest unit on the team X10 and you put the game in their hands?! Brilliant.

To me that is all on Schiano being a defensive minded coach.

tripblood

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#32 : December 11, 2012, 11:59:11 AM

Your pass D is the weakest unit on the team X10 and you put the game in their hands?! Brilliant.

To me that is all on Schiano being a defensive minded coach.

For that game situation, its on Schiano being a dumb ass. Our pass defense is the one thing on this team thats consistent.


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BaghdadJoe54

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#33 : December 11, 2012, 12:03:07 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

It was a give up play. They could at least have tried to be creative with the opportunity. Hell, try a screen pass. If it isn't there then you tell Freeman just to throw it at the backs feet and then you punt it.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a muffed kickoff. I wasn't on the field or anything, but my guess is that was a called squib kick, since they did that a few times during the game....for whatever reason.

Everything that you bring up here IS being talked about, just in other threads. The 3rd and 8 call is one of the many contributing factors of why we lost Sunday.

From behind the Bucs bench it was clearly a muff. You could tell he was disappointed and went threw his kicking motion numerous times after that.  Our screen game has been so hot or cold, and I would say a big risk considering some of the results such as the cowboys INT.

I'm not disputing it was a conservative playcall, I just totally disagree it cost us the game.   It's really a poor argument to me.  I would say if we were only up by 3, then I agree. Surely the Eagles had time for a FG.  However, they needed a damn TD. You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

tripblood

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#34 : December 11, 2012, 12:05:02 PM

You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

THATS THE PROBLEM!! The pass defense is so horrendous, you have to win in spite of how bad they are.

Schiano knew what the deal was.. Got ballsy, and lost.

Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistake of trusting his corners until we have real NFL players at the position


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BaghdadJoe54

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#35 : December 11, 2012, 12:05:25 PM

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff). 

he was probably worn out from all the punting he did in the first half.

Not a bad thought. I'm sure he was pissed Freeman didn't get at least in range for a FG...

chace1986

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#36 : December 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM

Ehh. It's not like they got the ball in Bucs territory. starting at your own 36 yard line isn't exactly striking distance. IMO.

There's a big difference from starting at your own 10 and your own 36 in that situation.  Especially with a rookie at the helm.   That's why we made him the highest paid punter and he deserves much grief for the piss poor punt.

I agree. Still isn't striking distance, though. Based upon everything that had transpired that game, I think at best, it would have bounced in the endzone or it would have been downed around the 20 if Koenen had hit it solidly. Eagles would have still probably adjusted their playcalling and had themselves in a position to score. Bottom line is that the defense should have not been trusted to hold that lead, even if there was a 99% probability that we would have downed them inside the 10.


jhop88

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#37 : December 11, 2012, 12:06:27 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

It was a give up play. They could at least have tried to be creative with the opportunity. Hell, try a screen pass. If it isn't there then you tell Freeman just to throw it at the backs feet and then you punt it.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a muffed kickoff. I wasn't on the field or anything, but my guess is that was a called squib kick, since they did that a few times during the game....for whatever reason.

Everything that you bring up here IS being talked about, just in other threads. The 3rd and 8 call is one of the many contributing factors of why we lost Sunday.

You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

We do? HAVE YOU WATCHED ANY BUCS GAMES THIS SEASON?

You can't honestly sit there and think they "have to trust THIS defense" can you?

BaghdadJoe54

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#38 : December 11, 2012, 12:08:27 PM

You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

THATS THE PROBLEM!! The pass defense is so horrendous, you have to win in spite of how bad they are.

Schiano knew what the deal was.. Got ballsy, and lost.

Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistake of trusting his corners until we have real NFL players at the position

I would argue the defense had a better day than the offense, so regardless of the past game for this "season" I would have trusted the defense.

I still say if you look at the percentages, fact is on that day our defense has a better probability of stopping them when compared to our offense completing a 3rd and 8.

chace1986

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#39 : December 11, 2012, 12:12:12 PM

You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

THATS THE PROBLEM!! The pass defense is so horrendous, you have to win in spite of how bad they are.

Schiano knew what the deal was.. Got ballsy, and lost.

Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistake of trusting his corners until we have real NFL players at the position

I disagree that he got "ballsy". He went with what he figured was the safest approach, which is why he said what he did about the "laws of football"

Ballsy from his standpoint would have been to go against those "laws" and look at things from a perspective of, "hey, if I allow my defense to step back on this field..we have a legit shot of losing this game."

This isn't the first time this season that these sort of conservative "old school" calls have put us in a position to lose football games. Those calls are not the sole reason of why we lost, of course, but they certainly are questionable in today's NFL.


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#40 : December 11, 2012, 12:14:51 PM

Should've suited up Brian Kelly, Dwight Smith and Dexter Jackson on that last drive. Hell they could've played better in their khakis and dress shoes.

BaghdadJoe54

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#41 : December 11, 2012, 12:16:54 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

Actually, saying the 3rd and 8 play call was the right play is comical.

a) This is one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen.

b) Only a few minutes earlier did Schiano watch them get torched by Foles on the previous drive.

c) Your best player on the TEAM IS VJAX, an offensive player, not a defensive player. Your paying this guy a lot of money and he was having a great game.

d) Next...

Weak points.

A) the secondary had a decent day IMHO. The first touchdown was a blown assignment by a LB. So the secondary gave up one TD all game.  Lets not forget the amazing one handed catch to keep a drive alive.
B) one drive for the game defines the unit? How about all the others we stopped them?
C) you could argue our worst player of the day was Freeman, the QB, also known as the guy who has to throw the ball.

Next.

Madman

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#42 : December 11, 2012, 12:19:35 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

Actually, saying the 3rd and 8 play call was the right play is comical.

a) This is one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen.

b) Only a few minutes earlier did Schiano watch them get torched by Foles on the previous drive.

c) Your best player on the TEAM IS VJAX, an offensive player, not a defensive player. Your paying this guy a lot of money and he was having a great game.

d) Next...

Weak points.

A) the secondary had a decent day IMHO. The first touchdown was a blown assignment by a LB. So the secondary gave up one TD all game.  Lets not forget the amazing one handed catch to keep a drive alive.
B) one drive for the game defines the unit? How about all the others we stopped them?
C) you could argue our worst player of the day was Freeman, the QB, also known as the guy who has to throw the ball.

Next.

Dude, rookie Nick Foles threw for 380 yards?! The secondary had a very bad day.

chace1986

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#43 : December 11, 2012, 12:19:44 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

It was a give up play. They could at least have tried to be creative with the opportunity. Hell, try a screen pass. If it isn't there then you tell Freeman just to throw it at the backs feet and then you punt it.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a muffed kickoff. I wasn't on the field or anything, but my guess is that was a called squib kick, since they did that a few times during the game....for whatever reason.

Everything that you bring up here IS being talked about, just in other threads. The 3rd and 8 call is one of the many contributing factors of why we lost Sunday.

From behind the Bucs bench it was clearly a muff. You could tell he was disappointed and went threw his kicking motion numerous times after that.  Our screen game has been so hot or cold, and I would say a big risk considering some of the results such as the cowboys INT.

I'm not disputing it was a conservative playcall, I just totally disagree it cost us the game.   It's really a poor argument to me.  I would say if we were only up by 3, then I agree. Surely the Eagles had time for a FG.  However, they needed a damn TD. You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

Ok, I'll concede the muff. Haven't rewatched the game yet, so I'm not in a position to question you on that. You are wrong on the Cowboys INT, though That came on a Freeman checkdown to DJ Ware, when it glanced off his hands and into the waiting arms of Sean Lee...if that is the play you are speaking of. Hey, at least trying a screen gives you a chance at a first down. The up the gut run they tried with Martin had a 0% chance of making it 8 yards. The defense knew it was coming.

I agree that the conservative call did not cost solely cost us the game, but it was a contributing factor in the loss. This defense is far from trustworthy. Most fans can see that, the coaches should be able to as well.


BaghdadJoe54

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#44 : December 11, 2012, 12:20:31 PM

How can you complain about Freeman, then ask the coach to throw it?  Some people have no logic.

The reality is it was the right decision considering the odds. The defense didn't get the job done, point blank.

A couple huge miscues at the end cost the game, not a damn third and 8. What the heck was our 3rd down conversion percentage for the game let alone a third and long in our territory.a

What we should be discussing is why our punter had a bad game (nobody mentions the complete muffed kickoff).  We should be discussing who blew the coverage on the last drive around midfield. We should be discussing why LJ couldn't stop a play that every player has said they knew was coming.  We should be discussing why we can't hold a rookie QB out of the end zone on a long drive with no timeouts.

Blaming Schiano for not going for it on third and 8 with the current Josh Freeman at the helm is comical.

It was a give up play. They could at least have tried to be creative with the opportunity. Hell, try a screen pass. If it isn't there then you tell Freeman just to throw it at the backs feet and then you punt it.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a muffed kickoff. I wasn't on the field or anything, but my guess is that was a called squib kick, since they did that a few times during the game....for whatever reason.

Everything that you bring up here IS being talked about, just in other threads. The 3rd and 8 call is one of the many contributing factors of why we lost Sunday.

You have to trust your defense, I don't really see how you go against those odds unless as I mentioned you have zero confidence in your defense.

We do? HAVE YOU WATCHED ANY BUCS GAMES THIS SEASON?

You can't honestly sit there and think they "have to trust THIS defense" can you?

I watch every single one of them.  I would also say that our pass defense has improved.

I don't care how bad you hate the secondary, they had a much much better day.

If you believe the "one season" mentality, then you have to give some credit to their performance.  At lot of the yards came at the end of the game.

With the same mindset you took in your post, how can you trust Freeman not to throw an INT or experience a sack fumble?

No logic, just hate.  This play call should be at the bottom of the list for complaints.
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