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GayRobot

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#45 : December 13, 2012, 05:58:25 AM

I can honestly say this article sums up everything I felt on Sunday afternoon.

Everything.

What an absolutely infuriating day.


Me too!!! I'm so pissed I am not going to the last game.  First game I will miss in 15 years.
But you went to every game last year...? At least this year they're trying

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#46 : December 13, 2012, 10:11:20 AM

Sorry "Ms Elam" but people aren't going crazy over one game here.  The problem with Josh is he is seriously limited and has shown no progress in the areas he's limited.  He's like a fighter who can't box to save his life, but has a great left hook.  He's gonna win a decent amount of bouts with that hook, and even when he's behind he always gives you the proverbial "puncher's chance".  But if you can execute and avoid that hook, he becomes as harmless as a bunny rabbit.  He'll land a couple in any fight, but if you just pay attention to that one thing you don't have to worry about him beating you with anything else.

Now that is fine, and you can certainly win with a guy like that.  You always have your Dilfers and Rypiens getting an occasional ring.  But you have to be honest with yourself and acknowledge that your guy is very limited.  Josh HAS to have the people around him for him to succeed.  He isn't the guy who can make the people around him succeed.  He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now.  Well, what he is now is what he's going to turn into.  His balls have already dropped, he is what he is and what he will be already. 

The question is, do you roll with what you have, knowing that you can potentially win with him but you need a great team around him to do so, or do you bag it and try again to find the guy who will carry the rest of your team to the top?
To me that's an idiotic premise. Let's replace Freeman because he isn't good enough to make Danny Goerer catch a game closing int. Instead of building a great team let's find a quarterback who throws so good that undrafted free agents like Lequan Lewis will be lockdown corners. You admit you can win one with the guy but since he isn't good enough to cover the teams short comings at age 22-24 instead of a building a team around him you ditch him and hope to find a player as rare as let's say Payton Manning? Manning and maybe Brady are probably the only 2 quarterbacks that will land in the playoffs no matter  what situation they are in. particularly this situation. And Brady is a great player, but he's also been in a great system his whole career so I'd bet he look a little more average with what has been HISTORICALLY bad defenses against the run and now the pass and a33 year old head coach who had never been a head coach, even in little l league. Freeman isn't prefect but he's easily the best quarterback this team had ever had, and this team his huge issues. You act as if Freeman is holding this team back when he's actually a catalyst.

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#47 : December 13, 2012, 10:12:20 AM


The false dichotomy. It is the main tactic of the Freeman supporters. If you say Freeman is average, they'll claim you said he's garbage, because they're pretending that elite and garbage are the only two possibilities.

 " Freeman misses throws I never said he didn't but name a quarterback who doesn't miss a throw on Sundays."

Another false dichotomy. This one attempts to equate missing a few throws with missing lots of throws, leaving perfect and misses some throws as the only two positions.

The false dichotomy is about as simple a debate tactic as there is, and the fact that it's so prevalent among the Freepologists tells you a lot about their mindset.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#48 : December 13, 2012, 10:31:22 AM


The false dichotomy. It is the main tactic of the Freeman supporters. If you say Freeman is average, they'll claim you said he's garbage, because they're pretending that elite and garbage are the only two possibilities.

 " Freeman misses throws I never said he didn't but name a quarterback who doesn't miss a throw on Sundays."

Another false dichotomy. This one attempts to equate missing a few throws with missing lots of throws, leaving perfect and misses some throws as the only two positions.

The false dichotomy is about as simple a debate tactic as there is, and the fact that it's so prevalent among the Freepologists tells you a lot about their mindset.
Can it. I support Freeman even when he has bad games. Sue me.
And for the record I've never said Freeman was elite or garbage and would readily admit he's some where in between. and just where did I say he only missed"a few throws".
: December 13, 2012, 10:33:47 AM Ms Elam

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#49 : December 13, 2012, 10:57:44 AM

You may call it support, but all you are doing is making excuses for him.

"Let's replace Freeman because he isn't good enough to make Danny Goerer catch a game closing int. Instead of building a great team let's find a quarterback who throws so good that undrafted free agents like Lequan Lewis will be lockdown corners."

^^This pretty much shows your ineptitude on the situation. Not one person is singularly blaming Josh Freeman for that loss on Sunday. Most are just saying that overall, he needs to play better. That first half was absolutely terrible, yet it gets ignored. Sure, Freeman had a part in digging the Bucs out of that hole, but it was a hole that he helped to create. Sure, Freeman can't control what the defense does, but he can control how he plays through 4 qtrs., and he can(to a degree) control how often, or seldom, the defense sees the field.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#50 : December 13, 2012, 11:59:12 AM

You may call it support, but all you are doing is making excuses for him.

"Let's replace Freeman because he isn't good enough to make Danny Goerer catch a game closing int. Instead of building a great team let's find a quarterback who throws so good that undrafted free agents like Lequan Lewis will be lockdown corners."

^^This pretty much shows your ineptitude on the situation. Not one person is singularly blaming Josh Freeman for that loss on Sunday. Most are just saying that overall, he needs to play better. That first half was absolutely terrible, yet it gets ignored. Sure, Freeman had a part in digging the Bucs out of that hole, but it was a hole that he helped to create. Sure, Freeman can't control what the defense does, but he can control how he plays through 4 qtrs., and he can(to a degree) control how often, or seldom, the defense sees the field.
Sure quote me out of context. That quote was a direct response to caradoc saying Freeman is good enough to win but it isn't good enough to lift up the team and make players better. That's why I said that. You can single it out and act like I just said it just to say it. Makes your argument better I guess.

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#51 : December 13, 2012, 12:22:09 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat". 


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#52 : December 13, 2012, 01:02:07 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat".
What exactly is your argument anyway. You act as if because i'm pro Freeman I said he's the greatest player ever and he doesn't need any improvement. I said he's good he will get better, the team around him should get better and so on. I think I've admitted several times in this thread that he misses throws, has bad games etc. i'm just saying I like the guy and we should move forward with him as oppose to getting another quarterback.  I guess in your mind that translates to Freeman is the best ever and never makes mistakes but whatever.

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#53 : December 13, 2012, 02:42:50 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat".
What exactly is your argument anyway. You act as if because i'm pro Freeman I said he's the greatest player ever and he doesn't need any improvement. I said he's good he will get better, the team around him should get better and so on. I think I've admitted several times in this thread that he misses throws, has bad games etc. i'm just saying I like the guy and we should move forward with him as oppose to getting another quarterback.  I guess in your mind that translates to Freeman is the best ever and never makes mistakes but whatever.

I've made a few arguments in this thread, but overall, it comes down to one point.

Freeman deserves criticism for bad play and shares the responsibility for some of losses that we have this year, including the loss 4 days ago.

Let's be clear. You started all of this with, "Freemans the man dude. Can it.".

Since those 6 words we're typed, you have said nothing to back up that he is "the man". All you have done is make excuse after excuse.

Doc said it best.

"He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now."


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#54 : December 13, 2012, 02:48:45 PM


That does pretty much sum it up.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#55 : December 13, 2012, 03:45:05 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat".
What exactly is your argument anyway. You act as if because i'm pro Freeman I said he's the greatest player ever and he doesn't need any improvement. I said he's good he will get better, the team around him should get better and so on. I think I've admitted several times in this thread that he misses throws, has bad games etc. i'm just saying I like the guy and we should move forward with him as oppose to getting another quarterback.  I guess in your mind that translates to Freeman is the best ever and never makes mistakes but whatever.

I've made a few arguments in this thread, but overall, it comes down to one point.

Freeman deserves criticism for bad play and shares the responsibility for some of losses that we have this year, including the loss 4 days ago.

Let's be clear. You started all of this with, "Freemans the man dude. Can it.".

Since those 6 words we're typed, you have said nothing to back up that he is "the man". All you have done is make excuse after excuse.

Doc said it best.

"He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now."
Well he is the man. What do you why me to do say he's not the man when he clearly is. That would be stupid. Then one of you guys tell me to be objective as if I haven't admitted Freeman has his issues yet caradoc, you and illuminator all cosign this idea that he hasn't shown "a damn bit of evidence" that he can be that guy. Really? Not 1 bit? Fine whatever. But i'm happy because Freeman is the starting quarterback of the Tampa bay buccaneers. And guess what Dom, Schiano and the glazers are all deluded with me because Freeman will be the starter next year and he will get a big fat juicy contract extension. Once again he is the man and you can can it.

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#56 : December 13, 2012, 03:55:08 PM


When the opposing D sells out to stop the run, a "franchise QB" lays the smackdown on them. If he can't, then he's not a franchise QB. All of your Freeman worship can never get around this one simple fact.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#57 : December 13, 2012, 04:01:52 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat".
What exactly is your argument anyway. You act as if because i'm pro Freeman I said he's the greatest player ever and he doesn't need any improvement. I said he's good he will get better, the team around him should get better and so on. I think I've admitted several times in this thread that he misses throws, has bad games etc. i'm just saying I like the guy and we should move forward with him as oppose to getting another quarterback.  I guess in your mind that translates to Freeman is the best ever and never makes mistakes but whatever.

I've made a few arguments in this thread, but overall, it comes down to one point.

Freeman deserves criticism for bad play and shares the responsibility for some of losses that we have this year, including the loss 4 days ago.

Let's be clear. You started all of this with, "Freemans the man dude. Can it.".

Since those 6 words we're typed, you have said nothing to back up that he is "the man". All you have done is make excuse after excuse.

Doc said it best.

"He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now."
Well he is the man. What do you why me to do say he's not the man when he clearly is. That would be stupid. Then one of you guys tell me to be objective as if I haven't admitted Freeman has his issues yet caradoc, you and illuminator all cosign this idea that he hasn't shown "a damn bit of evidence" that he can be that guy. Really? Not 1 bit? Fine whatever. But i'm happy because Freeman is the starting quarterback of the Tampa bay buccaneers. And guess what Dom, Schiano and the glazers are all deluded with me because Freeman will be the starter next year and he will get a big fat juicy contract extension.

Evidence is mounting that you are definitely not an expert of what is clear and what isn't. So you saying something is "clearly" a fact, holds little-to-no weight.

The difference between the three of us and you, is that you are saying that he is absolutely or "clearly" "the man"....and we are saying that there is no way to say that he is absolutely anything because he has yet to show any sort of consistency.

I hope, if he is given a "big fat juicy contract", that he actually deserves it and not just because of a continued sense of false hope that he will, out of the blue, flip a switch and turn into a lost Manning brother.


Once again he is the man and you can can it

I think it's time for your nap. Run along. You keep on digging deeper and it's not a coincidence that no one is jumping down the ever-growing illogical pit to join/save you.



Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#58 : December 13, 2012, 04:08:46 PM



 Not one person is singularly blaming Josh Freeman for that loss on Sunday. Most are just saying that overall, he needs to play better. That first half was absolutely terrible, yet it gets ignored. Sure, Freeman had a part in digging the Bucs out of that hole, but it was a hole that he helped to create. Sure, Freeman can't control what the defense does, but he can control how he plays through 4 qtrs., and he can(to a degree) control how often, or seldom, the defense sees the field.
Well, since Freeman had the shovel already, he might as well dig himself out of the hole he created.

The defense is as is.  The BUcs need to outscore opponents to win, it is as simple as that, and Freeman has the tools to do so.  But he sucks for such long stretches of the game that it severely hampers their chances to win right now.  He may improve, but what is he going to improve on?  His accuracy?

Not going tohappen, he is just not a tight window thrower, he is a wounded duck thrower in mid range, he always looks panicked in big games (can the comeback stuff...he is part of those problems, more often than not) and when you have to play streetball, that is when Free is at his best.  BUt this isnt the NSFL, it is the NFL.

Just not a fan.  I hate inconsistency, but his is maddening, because often it involves him making the most awul passes and decisions.


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#59 : December 13, 2012, 04:32:04 PM

I knew what you were saying. I quoted it because it was a lame counter to 'doc.

I don't need to do much to make my argument better. You are making things incredibly easy in that regard.

To quote the OP, keep up the "candy coat".
What exactly is your argument anyway. You act as if because i'm pro Freeman I said he's the greatest player ever and he doesn't need any improvement. I said he's good he will get better, the team around him should get better and so on. I think I've admitted several times in this thread that he misses throws, has bad games etc. i'm just saying I like the guy and we should move forward with him as oppose to getting another quarterback.  I guess in your mind that translates to Freeman is the best ever and never makes mistakes but whatever.

I've made a few arguments in this thread, but overall, it comes down to one point.

Freeman deserves criticism for bad play and shares the responsibility for some of losses that we have this year, including the loss 4 days ago.

Let's be clear. You started all of this with, "Freemans the man dude. Can it.".

Since those 6 words we're typed, you have said nothing to back up that he is "the man". All you have done is make excuse after excuse.

Doc said it best.

"He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now."
Well he is the man. What do you why me to do say he's not the man when he clearly is. That would be stupid. Then one of you guys tell me to be objective as if I haven't admitted Freeman has his issues yet caradoc, you and illuminator all cosign this idea that he hasn't shown "a damn bit of evidence" that he can be that guy. Really? Not 1 bit? Fine whatever. But i'm happy because Freeman is the starting quarterback of the Tampa bay buccaneers. And guess what Dom, Schiano and the glazers are all deluded with me because Freeman will be the starter next year and he will get a big fat juicy contract extension.

Evidence is mounting that you are definitely not an expert of what is clear and what isn't. So you saying something is "clearly" a fact, holds little-to-no weight.

The difference between the three of us and you, is that you are saying that he is absolutely or "clearly" "the man"....and we are saying that there is no way to say that he is absolutely anything because he has yet to show any sort of consistency.

I hope, if he is given a "big fat juicy contract", that he actually deserves it and not just because of a continued sense of false hope that he will, out of the blue, flip a switch and turn into a lost Manning brother.


Once again he is the man and you can can it

I think it's time for your nap. Run along. You keep on digging deeper and it's not a coincidence that no one is jumping down the ever-growing illogical pit to join/save you.
Lol this is funny. I called him "the man" what do you think this means? What do you think I think it means? And P.S i'm at the gym on a treadmill on my phone typing this not taking a nap. If you saw my bod you'd probably **CENSORED** your pants!
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