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#90 : December 20, 2012, 03:56:03 PM

Yea because he did so well with his own team that had just as bad as a defense as we do. SMH.

In 2009, the Saints 20th ranked defense in points against and 25th ranked defense in yards against... they won the Super Bowl that year.  Against the pass, they were 25th... against the run, they were 21st.  History shows... that when the Saints aren't without their head coach and defensive coordinator, Drew Brees can go 13-3 and win a super bowl when he has one of the worst defenses in the league.
Saints won the Super Bowl in 2009 with a bad defense because they got a ton of takeaways that year (39). When they don't get takeaways, they don't win as much. This year they only have 24 takeaways, the same number the Bucs have.

The offense can easily help the defense in that by moving the ball a lot, time of possession, and scoring.  When you do that with your offense, you force your opponent to be not only one-dimensional, but also bigger risk takers.  When that happens, your defense can be more aggressive... which is what happened in '09.  The Saints got turnovers because they were aggressive.  They had that luxury because they had Brees on offense.

You really think Drew Brees and Josh Freeman are so close in ability that Brees would not have gotten us the win against Dallas?  Philly?  Giants?  Eagles?  Redskins?
You don't get more takeaways because you have a good offense. The Saints never had more than 25 in any other year of the Brees era. Why do the Saints have the exact same number of takeaways as the Bucs if the Saints offense is so much better?

You don't think the HC and DC being suspended has anything to do with that?
This year without the HC and DC, the Saints have 24 takeaways. After the 39 they had in 2009, the second best they ever did with the HC and DC was 25. They're on pace to have their second best season in takeaways of the Brees era without the HC and DC.

This year with the Saints is a disaster, to try and use anything they're doing this year and try to compare it to any other year... good or bad, is nuts.  Drew Brees as a QB / player, is easily 5 games better over the course of a season than Josh Freeman.
You sure you don't want to talk about takeaways anymore?

LOL... the Saints were only good in '09 because they could turn the ball over?  That's what you're saying?  Stop.
It's pretty simple. Brees throws for a million yards and a bunch of touchdowns every year. The year they won the Super Bowl they had a +11 turnover differential. The best they've done in any other year was +1. Coincidence? I think not.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#91 : December 20, 2012, 03:56:39 PM

Wow, talk about a thread getting hijacked. . .I guess TBay XXXVII thinks we need Drew Brees next year.  I think there is a whole board for Fantasy Football man, let's talk about reality. 

Freeman is going to be our QB next year.  Will we bring in a better backup to maybe put a little heat on him. . .possibly, but other than A. Smith or Vick, I don't think there are any good options out there, and don't know that either of those fit the bill either.  When upgrading talent on this team this offseason is the topic, I think it is pretty obvious that defense has to be the priority.  So let's examine the def. positions:

1) DL - Job 1 stop the run...check.  Job 2 get to the QB...need to get healthy, and maybe add a stud DE or improvement at NT.  Could one of our guys become a stud DE (Clayborn, Bowers, Bennett), maybe.  Can we pluck one out of the draft or FA, yet to be seen.  I think NT is a position that could use an upgrade (Culpepper and Booger used to get a lot more QB pressure than Miller or Gibson ever do).

2) LB - Much improved this season, yet still more room for improvement, especially in pass coverage.  Could Mason play SLB if we bring in a stud rookie MLB?  If the right player is there as BPA maybe we go for it.

3) CB - Sure Biggers has improved, but still never seems to know where the ball is.  Our other guys show flashes, but still leave much to be desired.  This is without a doubt the position in the most need of an upgrade, especially if we part ways with Wright.  Not saying here that our young guys are trash.  They have potential, but a FA, trade or draft pickup, could help a lot here.

4) S - I think we are fairly set here.  I would welcome Ronde back.  I don't think his play has dropped off too much, and his leadership is invaluable.  Black is learning, and can be a serviceable replacement, but again if a BPA FS is available when we pick, I wouldn't be displeased.

All in all, I think that BPA is the way to get it done in the draft.  If we lock into positions of need, we end up with guys who may be a reach.  I know you've heard all this before, but it's all true.  If you end up stacked at a position, it enables you to use unique formations to get your best talent on the field and create mismatches, and opens you up to have the upper hand in trade scenarios to fill positions of need.

All those positions of need are more important this off season than QB, only because there isn't a quality franchise caliber QB in this draft or free agency.

He's dead serious about this, everyone. Oh my god, there's no way you can be this stupid.


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#92 : December 20, 2012, 03:57:54 PM

To break down the needs on the offense:

1) QB - Freeman has definitely had his ups and downs.  His inconsistencies have been and continue to be well chronicled on these boards, whether the OP is about him or about the price of milk at the grocery store.  My feeling is that Freeman feeds off the team energy and vice versa.  He has shown me enough to give him next year to prove it, before looking to move on.  That said, a better backup, or even someone to put a little pressure on Freeman wouldn't hurt my feelings.  I'm not a college football guy, so I just have to trust most other posters who say this is not the year to look to QB out of the college ranks.  So do you go after a Flynn/Cousins type of young player, or a solid veteran who doesn't mind backing up and teaching?  Not sure here, but also think this is one of our least pressing needs AT THIS TIME.  Talk to me again next year, I'm sick of debating it this year.

2) OL - It all starts up front, and you can never have too many good OL men.  If the BPA is a C or T or even G I say pull the trigger.  We have guys this year getting valuable experience playing in place of injured starters.  We could still draft an immediate replacement at RT or C.  A highly drafted G could back up and be eventual replacement for DJ, and we have seen how important quality depth is at the position.  OL for most is not a sexy pick, but by all means is rarely a bad idea.

3) TE - I think we have serviceable players at this position.  Our young guys are showing improvement, and D. Clark has been a great leader and performed well down the stretch.  Hell, just his walk off catch against the hated Panthers and his lack of demanding Josh to force the ball to him get him brought back IMO.  If we spend a draft pick on a TE, then I want to get a Graham/Gronkowski type player, otherwise this is a wasted pick.

4) RB - If we extinguish the Blount, then we need to grab another RB here.  Though many of us would like to see a two back system, it seems Schiano is looking to go feature back and ride Dougie till he gives out.  I don't think we need to spend a high pick, and several FA options will probably be floating around.  This is the easiest position to replace, I think.  Lorig has shown promise at times at FB, and I think he will continue to improve, given opportunity.

5) WR - Almost a position of strength.  Our #1 and #2 are excellent.  Underwood as the #3 has been as inconsistent as Josh Freeman has.  Remember the days when it seemed like Preston Parker picked up about 3 clutch third downs per game.  We need that back.  Whether Underwood can improve, or we go FA or draft, we'll see.  I'd rather not spend too much money here, but the right FA could make a lot of sense and save the draft picks for the D or OL.

Sorry for not recommending specific players, but as I said, don't know much about the college guys, and would have to wait to see specific FA lists to see what makes sense. 

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#93 : December 20, 2012, 04:31:28 PM


It's pretty simple. Brees throws for a million yards and a bunch of touchdowns every year. The year they won the Super Bowl they had a +11 turnover differential. The best they've done in any other year was +1. Coincidence? I think not.

It's a shame that you are totally biased against Brees.  He's a great QB... elite even, and here you are saying that he's useless.  Sad... so sad.

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#94 : December 20, 2012, 04:32:36 PM

Wow, talk about a thread getting hijacked. . .I guess TBay XXXVII thinks we need Drew Brees next year.  I think there is a whole board for Fantasy Football man, let's talk about reality. 

Freeman is going to be our QB next year.  Will we bring in a better backup to maybe put a little heat on him. . .possibly, but other than A. Smith or Vick, I don't think there are any good options out there, and don't know that either of those fit the bill either.  When upgrading talent on this team this offseason is the topic, I think it is pretty obvious that defense has to be the priority.  So let's examine the def. positions:

1) DL - Job 1 stop the run...check.  Job 2 get to the QB...need to get healthy, and maybe add a stud DE or improvement at NT.  Could one of our guys become a stud DE (Clayborn, Bowers, Bennett), maybe.  Can we pluck one out of the draft or FA, yet to be seen.  I think NT is a position that could use an upgrade (Culpepper and Booger used to get a lot more QB pressure than Miller or Gibson ever do).

2) LB - Much improved this season, yet still more room for improvement, especially in pass coverage.  Could Mason play SLB if we bring in a stud rookie MLB?  If the right player is there as BPA maybe we go for it.

3) CB - Sure Biggers has improved, but still never seems to know where the ball is.  Our other guys show flashes, but still leave much to be desired.  This is without a doubt the position in the most need of an upgrade, especially if we part ways with Wright.  Not saying here that our young guys are trash.  They have potential, but a FA, trade or draft pickup, could help a lot here.

4) S - I think we are fairly set here.  I would welcome Ronde back.  I don't think his play has dropped off too much, and his leadership is invaluable.  Black is learning, and can be a serviceable replacement, but again if a BPA FS is available when we pick, I wouldn't be displeased.

All in all, I think that BPA is the way to get it done in the draft.  If we lock into positions of need, we end up with guys who may be a reach.  I know you've heard all this before, but it's all true.  If you end up stacked at a position, it enables you to use unique formations to get your best talent on the field and create mismatches, and opens you up to have the upper hand in trade scenarios to fill positions of need.

All those positions of need are more important this off season than QB, only because there isn't a quality franchise caliber QB in this draft or free agency.

He's dead serious about this, everyone. Oh my god, there's no way you can be this stupid.

Wait, you don't think the Bucs need upgrades on the defense... and I'm the stupid one?

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#95 : December 20, 2012, 04:35:14 PM

I just wanted this thread to not turn into another Freeman thread. I figured we could discuss non-QB needs here.

Personal opinion is that it would be insane to give up on Freeman, but I also think I have as good of chance to be the starting QB for Tampa Bay next year as everyone other than Freeman. Whether you like him or not, he's not going anywhere, at least for 2013 and probably for his career. That's not to say I don't think people should discuss it if they want, I was just hoping to keep this to other, more realistic needs.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

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#96 : December 20, 2012, 06:06:32 PM

my thoughts and some realistic picks. we need to upgrade the defense and focus on the secondary. what we put out there on sundays is a complete joke. we could start over with 3 rookies and a second year kid and be better than what we have right now sadly.

1st - Banks/milliner/rhodes. whichever is there when we draft
2nd - poyer/ryan. need more CBs
3rd - phillip thomas. we need another safety and im not ready to crown ahmad black yet. hes looked good at times but we can always use another S
4th - everette dawkins. gives us another DT for the rotation that can get penetration.
4th - Best OT available

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#97 : December 20, 2012, 07:52:59 PM

Wow, talk about a thread getting hijacked. . .I guess TBay XXXVII thinks we need Drew Brees next year.  I think there is a whole board for Fantasy Football man, let's talk about reality. 

Freeman is going to be our QB next year.  Will we bring in a better backup to maybe put a little heat on him. . .possibly, but other than A. Smith or Vick, I don't think there are any good options out there, and don't know that either of those fit the bill either.  When upgrading talent on this team this offseason is the topic, I think it is pretty obvious that defense has to be the priority.  So let's examine the def. positions:

1) DL - Job 1 stop the run...check.  Job 2 get to the QB...need to get healthy, and maybe add a stud DE or improvement at NT.  Could one of our guys become a stud DE (Clayborn, Bowers, Bennett), maybe.  Can we pluck one out of the draft or FA, yet to be seen.  I think NT is a position that could use an upgrade (Culpepper and Booger used to get a lot more QB pressure than Miller or Gibson ever do).

2) LB - Much improved this season, yet still more room for improvement, especially in pass coverage.  Could Mason play SLB if we bring in a stud rookie MLB?  If the right player is there as BPA maybe we go for it.

3) CB - Sure Biggers has improved, but still never seems to know where the ball is.  Our other guys show flashes, but still leave much to be desired.  This is without a doubt the position in the most need of an upgrade, especially if we part ways with Wright.  Not saying here that our young guys are trash.  They have potential, but a FA, trade or draft pickup, could help a lot here.

4) S - I think we are fairly set here.  I would welcome Ronde back.  I don't think his play has dropped off too much, and his leadership is invaluable.  Black is learning, and can be a serviceable replacement, but again if a BPA FS is available when we pick, I wouldn't be displeased.

All in all, I think that BPA is the way to get it done in the draft.  If we lock into positions of need, we end up with guys who may be a reach.  I know you've heard all this before, but it's all true.  If you end up stacked at a position, it enables you to use unique formations to get your best talent on the field and create mismatches, and opens you up to have the upper hand in trade scenarios to fill positions of need.

All those positions of need are more important this off season than QB, only because there isn't a quality franchise caliber QB in this draft or free agency.

He's dead serious about this, everyone. Oh my god, there's no way you can be this stupid.

Wait, you don't think the Bucs need upgrades on the defense... and I'm the stupid one?

No, because you actually think that even if there were good options out there, we would move on from Freeman.


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#98 : December 21, 2012, 12:08:19 PM

Wow, talk about a thread getting hijacked. . .I guess TBay XXXVII thinks we need Drew Brees next year.  I think there is a whole board for Fantasy Football man, let's talk about reality. 

Freeman is going to be our QB next year.  Will we bring in a better backup to maybe put a little heat on him. . .possibly, but other than A. Smith or Vick, I don't think there are any good options out there, and don't know that either of those fit the bill either.  When upgrading talent on this team this offseason is the topic, I think it is pretty obvious that defense has to be the priority.  So let's examine the def. positions:

1) DL - Job 1 stop the run...check.  Job 2 get to the QB...need to get healthy, and maybe add a stud DE or improvement at NT.  Could one of our guys become a stud DE (Clayborn, Bowers, Bennett), maybe.  Can we pluck one out of the draft or FA, yet to be seen.  I think NT is a position that could use an upgrade (Culpepper and Booger used to get a lot more QB pressure than Miller or Gibson ever do).

2) LB - Much improved this season, yet still more room for improvement, especially in pass coverage.  Could Mason play SLB if we bring in a stud rookie MLB?  If the right player is there as BPA maybe we go for it.

3) CB - Sure Biggers has improved, but still never seems to know where the ball is.  Our other guys show flashes, but still leave much to be desired.  This is without a doubt the position in the most need of an upgrade, especially if we part ways with Wright.  Not saying here that our young guys are trash.  They have potential, but a FA, trade or draft pickup, could help a lot here.

4) S - I think we are fairly set here.  I would welcome Ronde back.  I don't think his play has dropped off too much, and his leadership is invaluable.  Black is learning, and can be a serviceable replacement, but again if a BPA FS is available when we pick, I wouldn't be displeased.

All in all, I think that BPA is the way to get it done in the draft.  If we lock into positions of need, we end up with guys who may be a reach.  I know you've heard all this before, but it's all true.  If you end up stacked at a position, it enables you to use unique formations to get your best talent on the field and create mismatches, and opens you up to have the upper hand in trade scenarios to fill positions of need.

All those positions of need are more important this off season than QB, only because there isn't a quality franchise caliber QB in this draft or free agency.

He's dead serious about this, everyone. Oh my god, there's no way you can be this stupid.

Wait, you don't think the Bucs need upgrades on the defense... and I'm the stupid one?

No, because you actually think that even if there were good options out there, we would move on from Freeman.

Oh, my bad... I thought the best way to build a successful football team was to have a franchise QB.  Don't know what I was thinking.

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#99 : December 21, 2012, 12:08:49 PM

Freeman cant throw or read a field.


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