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michael89156

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: December 18, 2012, 12:06:21 AM



Buccaneers learning three new Rs the hard way

 By Tom Jones, Times Staff Writer
 In Print: Tuesday, December 18, 2012




TAMPA

 Feels like trouble over at One Buc Place.

Not the trouble that gets a coach fired or a quarterback replaced. Not the trouble that requires ripping up the team and starting over.

But the kind of trouble that eventually leads to firings and replacements and new blueprints if things don't get straightened out.

Just a month ago, the Bucs had won four in a row. We were talking playoffs. We were talking about Greg Schiano's skilled leadership as a rookie coach. And someone okay, that would be me even mentioned something about giving quarterback Josh Freeman a $100 million contract extension.

Now we're talking about a four-game losing streak. We're talking about the possibility of another losing season. We're wondering if Schiano has lost control of his locker room, as well as his sidelines. And most would rather stuff that $100 million in a suitcase and toss it off the Howard Frankland before giving a single penny to Freeman.

This Bucs season has turned into one of those cartoons where the train is headed toward a track that ends on the middle of a bridge.

The trouble can be seen through the three R's:


Regression

Halfway through this four-game losing streak, the Bucs were 6-6, but it was a "good" 6-6. They had some last-second losses, they let a couple of games get away, they had a comeback or two fall a bit short. But, all in all, the Bucs were in every game.

Then came Dec. 9 when the Bucs lost to an Eagles team that had lost eight in a row, a team that was playing a backup rookie quarterback and an organization that can't wait to get to the end of the season so they can start firing people.

The Bucs followed that up with Sunday's 41-0 clunker in New Orleans. Clunker is a good word. It was Schiano's.

"Well, I think our team is disappointed in what we did (Sunday)," Schiano said. "We go out and throw our first clunker. We've been together now for 11 months and we threw a clunker. Now, the sky is not falling."

Maybe not. But you can see a few cracks.


Rebellion

Normally, you don't make too much out of a disagreement on an NFL sideline, even if it turns physical. We've seen teammates go at it in baseball dugouts and on hockey benches and in football in huddles, at practice, on the sidelines. That's why, at first take, you shouldn't blow Sunday's shoving match between assistant coach Bryan Cox and linebacker Adam Hayward out of proportion. It's tackle football. Tensions are high.

Also, you normally don't make too much out of an anonymous quote like the one that came out Monday on profootballtalk.com. An unidentified Bucs player supposedly said, "Can we send these coaches back to college?"

Without a name to attach to the quote, we have no clue as to if we're talking about a meaningful player, a player with an ax to grind or, quite frankly, if the player is even real.

Rub these two incidents together and maybe you don't have a fire, but you certainly have a little smoke.

Ultimately, a coach and a player pushing on a sideline just cannot happen, not if you have an environment of respect. And the college crack, if it really did happen, was a direct slap at Schiano. Even if no one said such a thing, the feeling always has been that Schiano's college ways would work as long as the team was winning, but could present a problem if the season started heading south.

"The reality is I don't sense any of that," Schiano said Monday. "I feel like we got a group of men in that locker room who are together."

For the record, Freeman called the team "unified."


Repeat

You hate to bring up last year's 4-12 debacle, but it can't be helped. The Bucs started just fine at 4-2, then the season crumbled. Ten straight losses, including a suggestion that the players stopped playing at the end. If you go back, it's hard to find more than one or two wins against decent opponents.

Now it's 2012 and here comes another losing streak, here come a couple of bad losses and you really can't find more than one, maybe, really good win. The eye test suggests that the 2012 Bucs are way better than the 2011 Bucs, but the two seasons, especially of late, are looking just a tad too familiar.

That leaves one R.


Redemption

It's not too late to fix this thing.

"We dropped the ball," Freeman said Monday. "But it's how do we respond to adversity?"

A victory Sunday against the Rams would be a good start, and a solid season finale against the Falcons would go a long way to giving hope for next season and restoring a bit of the confidence that has been lost in the past month.

"We just need to do a better job of teaching and they need to do a better job of doing and we need to end this thing the right way," Schiano said.

Then he smiled and repeated it:

"End this thing the right way."

Schiano has two games to end this the right way. Or else there could be big trouble.

The Anti-Java

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#1 : December 18, 2012, 02:50:52 AM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.


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#2 : December 18, 2012, 11:20:04 AM

It is too late for redemption but not too late to start building some confidence for next season. Show some pride will ya?

Feel Real Good

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#3 : December 18, 2012, 11:21:53 AM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#4 : December 18, 2012, 11:57:15 AM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?
8-8 would be better than 6-10! But they better show up and contend for playoffs next season or the only thing they'll be contending for is layoffs!


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#5 : December 18, 2012, 07:18:24 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.


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PewterReportMC....
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Feel Real Good

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#6 : December 18, 2012, 07:21:14 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#7 : December 18, 2012, 07:25:53 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.





The only part I would disagree with, is Freeman's lows are Grand Canyon type lows.  Sure Brady and Peyton have off games.  But they are not Sanchez/Tebow type off games.  Freeman seems capable of the lowest of low "off" games.


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PewterReportMC....
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Feel Real Good

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#8 : December 18, 2012, 07:31:19 PM

Did you see what happened to Eli Manning this past weekend? Did you see what happened to Matt Ryan the week before? Defensive players get paid, too.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#9 : December 18, 2012, 07:43:40 PM

Did you see what happened to Eli Manning this past weekend? Did you see what happened to Matt Ryan the week before? Defensive players get paid, too.



I would say those 2 have better bodies of work than Freeman.   With them you know they will be ok the next week.  Freeman?  Not so much.


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PewterReportMC....
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RogerGoodellSucks

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#10 : December 18, 2012, 07:49:53 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.





The only part I would disagree with, is Freeman's lows are Grand Canyon type lows.  Sure Brady and Peyton have off games.  But they are not Sanchez/Tebow type off games.  Freeman seems capable of the lowest of low "off" games.

Neither are Freeman's. The only game where he looked like Sanchez was this week against the Saints. The Cowboys game was really bad too. But, that's only 2 awful games.

I don't know why everyone claims that his bad games are so awful. They really aren't. An awful game for a QB is when you are turning the ball over a lot. Freeman has only turned the ball over more than once in a game 3 times this season.

Drew Brees and Eli Manning have done it 5 times. Tony Romo has 2 games where has thrown 4 or more INT's. Matt Ryan has 2 games where has thrown 3 or more INT's.

: December 18, 2012, 08:00:31 PM RogerGoodellSucks


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#11 : December 18, 2012, 08:04:28 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.

Freeman is only 24...his poor play doesn't really count for at least three more years..


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#12 : December 18, 2012, 08:09:32 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.





The only part I would disagree with, is Freeman's lows are Grand Canyon type lows.  Sure Brady and Peyton have off games.  But they are not Sanchez/Tebow type off games.  Freeman seems capable of the lowest of low "off" games.

Neither are Freeman's. The only game where he looked like Sanchez was this week against the Saints. The Cowboys game was really bad too. But, that's only 2 awful games.

I don't know why everyone claims that his bad games are so awful. They really aren't. An awful game for a QB is when you are turning the ball over a lot. Freeman has only turned the ball over more than once in a game 3 times this season.

Drew Brees and Eli Manning have done it 5 times. Tony Romo has 2 games where has thrown 4 or more INT's. Matt Ryan has 2 games where has thrown 3 or more INT's.

yet according to most of these guys...because Freeman hasnt accomplished as much as those guys its different lol. A turnover is a turnover. Bad games are bad games.

Remember when Drew Brees **CENSORED** the bed a few weeks ago? I didnt hear any backlash about that....funny how that works right?

Nice numbers to back up what some of us have been saying

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#13 : December 18, 2012, 08:09:33 PM

I posted in another thread where jhop was pointing out Freeman's 'terrible' 12/11 td/int ratio in 9 games this year. Most of the QBs in the league would be happy with that ratio in 9 of their games this year when you look at it. Freeman has stretches where he is so damn frustrating to watch but then he'll go out and play ridiculously well at times. It's like he's Jeckyll and Hyde. To me, he's a lot like Eli Manning with perhaps a lower ceiling in his ability. Both sub-60% career completion rates, both make some crazy good throws followed by ones that make you wonder what was going through his head and both have driven their fan base absolutely nuts at times with their inconsistent play and boneheaded decisions. I think we also have to remember Freeman is astonishingly young for the time he's been in the NFL. He's a bit more than a year and a half older than Luck, two years older than RGIII and a few months older than Wilson - the three big QB rookies this year. I don't think he will have the careers that Luck and RGIII will have, he could be comparable to Wilson with the right coaching. I'd like to see a veteran QB on the roster to act as a mentor to him, someone who could kind of be another QB coach. Of course, I'd also like to see him spend a season with a decent offensive line that's intact for the full year too. As bad as some of his games have been this season, he's on pace to have the best year statistically at QB that the Bucs have ever seen. He's 2 TD passes away from having thrown more in a season than any Buc QB and he's 5 TD passes away from the first 30 TD season by a Buc QB. He's 360 yards away from throwing for more yards than any Buc QB ever and he's 529 yards shy of the first ever 4000 yard passing season for a Buc QB. Fact is, if at the end of last year someone had told us that with two games to go the Bucs would be 6-8 and Freeman would have 25 TDs/12 ints and nearly 3500 yards passing most of us would have laughed that person off the boards.

 Freeman is one of the more frustrating parts of this year, but I don't think he's the major reason we've lost the games we have - or that we've won the games we have for that matter.

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#14 : December 18, 2012, 08:11:37 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.





The only part I would disagree with, is Freeman's lows are Grand Canyon type lows.  Sure Brady and Peyton have off games.  But they are not Sanchez/Tebow type off games.  Freeman seems capable of the lowest of low "off" games.

Neither are Freeman's. The only game where he looked like Sanchez was this week against the Saints. The Cowboys game was really bad too. But, that's only 2 awful games.

I don't know why everyone claims that his bad games are so awful. They really aren't. An awful game for a QB is when you are turning the ball over a lot. Freeman has only turned the ball over more than once in a game 3 times this season.

Drew Brees and Eli Manning have done it 5 times. Tony Romo has 2 games where has thrown 4 or more INT's. Matt Ryan has 2 games where has thrown 3 or more INT's.

Oh ok...so essentially, a throw isn't a bad throw unless its intercepted.

Nevermind that Freeman threw 2-3 balls right into the hands of Eagles defenders and they dropped the would be ints.

QBs don't have awful games unless they are turning the ball over...what a load of crap.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.
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